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Strong Non-Tesla EV presence at the 2022 New York International Auto Show

ƆCIII

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All the auto shows and media advertising in the world, are just expenses the purchasers are going to pay for if eventually buying one, especially since the models are being teased to the public but with no promises of serious mass scale (which is what legacy auto has done often with prototypes and concept cars at shows in the past).

What should be paid attention to, is what the real scale of production is going to be for a particular model. How many times has one went into a car dealer asking about a new model offering they saw at a show or on television, only to hear the salesperson say something like, "...those will have to be ordered and there's about an 11 month waiting list, and it's going to cost you more because we won't be able to give you any discounts like we have for cars in inventory on the lot...Sure we can't interest you in something here on the lot? We have some really good deals on financing!..." Those same old down-talking customer-steering oligopoly control tactics to treat buyers like sheep, have never changed.

I would just as soon not want Tesla to have any cars at these 'shows' as I know Tesla is much better from a business model standpoint, but I also see the benefit of having Tesla represented.

Now if Toyota would sell the BZ4 direct to consumers and not advertise through media, I might be interested to take a more serious look at it. In that type of business model, Toyota would certainly be able to sell it for much cheaper, or make it even better for the same purchase price.

The best non-EV I ever owned was a Toyota Celica for 17 years and 240K miles (then I gave it away still operational). Many car dealers were 'frustrated' why I wouldn't (trade it in) after four years or so of ownership. They basically attempted to normalize that to everyone. They did not want people to believe a product could actaully last a long time. Toyota has some good quality roots in their manufacturing in my opinion. In fact, the first time I started doubting Consumer Reports was when they started trying to throw shade on Toyotas which I knew was biased and then I realized that Consumer Reports was not from 'consumers' and that they had been 'bought'

But any purchase experience from an otherwise good manufacturing process, can be diminished or compromised by entanglements of excess financial weight in dealership costs or media advertising, that buyers end up paying for, either through reduced product quality or a more expensive purchase price. There's just no getting around it because it is simple math versus human nature.

Car shows and advertising glamour will never be able to hide a fundamentally flawed business model from me anymore, because of my level of experience with car dealers. The business model and amount of leaky money outflows, determines the true remaining substance manufactured in the car (or any product). Tesla eliminates traditional manufacturing inefficiencies, avoids unneccessary layers of costs, while executing production better than anyone else.

= ƆCIII
 

HaulingAss

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I donā€™t think GM is kicking ass and taking names. They are just perhaps not quite as far behind everyone other than Tesla as it seemed.
That's some faint praise. OK, GM is not quite as far behind Tesla as everyone else.

But you are confusing me because you used to say that Ford was positioned well in the EV space (compared to the rest). It doesn't really matter which it is because they are both so far behind Tesla in terms of being able to make large numbers of EV's profitably they are actually at a virtual tie even if one is twice as good as the other.

Both Ford and GM are looking at bankruptcy without a massive government bailout.
 
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HaulingAss

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I fully understand they don't need to advertise to people like you and me. I don't know what you don't understand about their lack of penetration with people who hate technology. Can't hurt to penetrate that stubborn population. Easiest way for that is to participate in the industry standard trade show format.

But they don't need it and they don't really care so I hear that and I understand it. I just think they would kill it if they went at that crowd cause it would speed up the transition.

I also don't understand the hard stance on screw advertising and screw everyone who suggests it! Its peanuts for them in the grand scheme.
Killing it for Tela is simply making more cars. Having more demand or penetrating new demographics doesn't help them. Not even a little bit.

My anti-advertising stance is simply because I don't want to pay for something as useless as corporate advertising. I know what kind of vehicle I want, I don't need some company to suggest I really don't know and then make me pay for the privilege.
 

firsttruck

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........
But they don't need it and they don't really care so I hear that and I understand it. I just think they would kill it if they went at that crowd cause it would speed up the transition.

I do not understand how Tesla advertising right now will speed up transition.
Tesla is working as fast as they can and they still are way behind demand.
Tesla has raised their prices significantly not because of rising material costs but raised because they have too much demand to handle at this time.

Once they catch-up to demand they will lower prices and then maybe they should appear at car shows.


........
I also don't understand the hard stance on screw advertising and screw everyone who suggests it! Its peanuts for them in the grand scheme.
It is definitely not peanuts.
For the legacy auto OEMs the spending on advertising averages $400-500 per vehicle.

Many of us do not want to have to pay that amount to support that system when we already did our own research and we frequently know more about the vehicle than the salesperson at the dealer.

Some legacy auto OEMs spend as much in advertising as they spend on R&D.

-------------
Tesla spends the most R&D and least in advertising per car sold
By Fred Lambert - Mar. 24th 2022
https://electrek.co/2022/03/24/tesla-spends-most-rd-least-advertising-car-sold/
-------------
 

Crissa

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Speed up transition - by showing people what could be. Letting people comparison shop. And helping people ease into the transition by knowing just how many EVs are being delivered each year.

It won't speed up (or slow down) the number of cars they make. There are more than enough local clubs they could supply with their in-house media like they do at their showrooms.

-Crissa
 

JBee

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How high do you reckon it is..

Looks less that the tailgate height off the ground... now we need the tailgate dimensions lol and a Pixel Master.
Tailgate is 680mm high (2.2ft) when folded up. If you fold the tailgate in that image all the way down, it looks like it will touch the ground. So from that photo I'd say it is a bit lower than that so probably around 580-620mm (2ft).

For comparison center of wheel is ca. 450mm (1.5ft)

Tesla Model 2 Strong Non-Tesla EV presence at the 2022 New York International Auto Show lectric-Pickup-with-Extendable-Ramps-and-Tesla-ATV


Note this is in the lowest setting possible, which together with opening the tailgate, is substantially harder than a built in or fold out step to get in the back. Obviously one need not delete the one for the other, and a additional bumper integrated step need not cost much.

Because of the high side sails its not possible to use a gear tunnel door like the Rivian as a step.
 

Ogre

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That's some faint praise. OK, GM is not quite as far behind Tesla as everyone else.

But you are confusing me because you used to say that Ford was positioned well in the EV space (compared to the rest). It doesn't really matter which it is because they are both so far behind Tesla in terms of being able to make large numbers of EV's profitably they are actually at a virtual tie even if one is twice as good as the other.

Both Ford and GM are looking at bankruptcy without a massive government bailout.
Mostly just surprised GM was able to deal with this recall so quickly.

PS: Mostly think you are right though and they are all screwed.
 
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JBee

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1650264252598.jpeg


I think she is referring to the detention in the side of the tailgate near the bumper.
Ok that is unlikely to help much, as it is only about 3" lower. The bottom of the bumper corner would be about 10", a foldout one could split it in half with a foot either way.
 

charliemagpie

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Tailgate is 680mm high (2.2ft) when folded up. If you fold the tailgate in that image all the way down, it looks like it will touch the ground. So from that photo I'd say it is a bit lower than that so probably around 580-620mm (2ft).

For comparison center of wheel is ca. 450mm (1.5ft)

lectric-Pickup-with-Extendable-Ramps-and-Tesla-ATV.jpg


Note this is in the lowest setting possible, which together with opening the tailgate, is substantially harder than a built in or fold out step to get in the back. Obviously one need not delete the one for the other, and a additional bumper integrated step need not cost much.

Because of the high side sails its not possible to use a gear tunnel door like the Rivian as a step.

Centre of the wheel is 450, that's clever.
And by my measuring.. its exactly that off the ground.
Tesla Model 2 Strong Non-Tesla EV presence at the 2022 New York International Auto Show 1650280614975




BTW, Now we even have a bigger bed than I thought.
I had guessed the highest point of the bed was 800... but if the tailgate is 680 mm, the back of the bed gotta be over a metre.

Getting bigger folks !!!!



 
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Dusty

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Both Ford and GM are looking at bankruptcy without a massive government bailout.
And they're going to get a bailout. The reason they're going to give is that their bankruptcy is the government's fault. Because the government forced them to make the EV transition, which cost them too much money and that they couldn't compete.

Even though you could point to the dozens of reasons they gave over the previous 10 years, saying how EVs weren't the future, unpopular, petrol was king, that they spent plenty on research for bigger ICE car engines, and simply purchased carbon offsets.
 

HaulingAss

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It is definitely not peanuts.
For the legacy auto OEMs the spending on advertising averages $400-500 per vehicle.

Many of us do not want to have to pay that amount to support that system when we already did our own research and we frequently know more about the vehicle than the salesperson at the dealer.

Some legacy auto OEMs spend as much in advertising as they spend on R&D.
It's worse than the article says and, as legacy auto volumes fall, they either have to advertise less or the costs go even higher.

I've seen credible figures the true advertising cost per car is approaching $2K. The smaller figures don't include the advertising the auto dealerships use to get you in the door. This is money the consumer ultimately pays as well, the inefficiencies are astounding. Dealerships have TV and radio advertising on local stations and publish a slew of weekly ads in local publications. There are Internet ads as well. They have to pay someone to update the ads every week to reflect changing inventory and incentives.

This is in addition to the money manufacturers spend on advertising the brand and the new models. You know those big inflatable figures that dance on dealership parking lots to catch your eye? Yup, you're paying for them every time you purchase a legacy auto.
 

Ogre

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Ok that is unlikely to help much, as it is only about 3" lower. The bottom of the bumper corner would be about 10", a foldout one could split it in half with a foot either way.
The only real advantage of having it there is you can use the bed corner to balance and pull yourself up. On the end of the tailgate you are out in space.

I think when the truck is kneeling, the tailgate is low enough you really donā€™t need a step off the back. @charliemagpie ā€˜s illustration above does a good job highlighting that.

I canā€™t speak for everyone, but when Iā€˜ve loaded or unloaded my trucks generally I get up into the bed once and lower things out of the bed then climb out. Or the reverse, stack things on the tailgate, climb up once then move things into the truck bed.

That said, a simple flip down step would be a nice add.
 

Cybertruck Hawaii

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Tesla doesnā€™t need any publicity or advertising. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising.
 
 
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