Bought TSLA stock today

[SpaceYooper]

You lost me at

all money promotes uncontrolled, unsustainable and unethical behavior,

Too absolute. All money does not.

 

[JBee]

You lost me at


Too absolute. All money does not.

Look at what it enables.

Simply, as soon you have spent it you have absolutely lost all control of what it does.

It is only a debt note on society, that promotes the slavery of life by enabling the resource allocation capability of the few over the many.

 

[Crissa]

You lost me at


Too absolute. All money does not.

Money in the absence of other controls doesn't promote ethics, hence, it promotes the lack thereof.

It's one thing JBee and I agree upon, because it's plain as day. One variable alone of course will not track for another one. It's why breeding dogs for pug noses or pretty wolf coats breeds away from healthy dogs. It's just a fact of math. Non-correlated facets aren't correlated.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

For me fiat currency is not a metric for value or wealth, at all.

I actively seek to reduce using currency for trade, because all money promotes uncontrolled, unsustainable and unethical behavior, through the liquidity of fossil fuel powered markets, and a economy that is designed to funnel to the top, by exploiting the vulnerabilities of the weak.

Let alone that money, with fractional lending money generation, as of itself only promotes lending for "profit", and ignores nearly any other benefit, both social and environmental, in the pursuit of making more coin. It's actually one of the main reasons we as a race are not sustainable and live in a artificial bubble that is no longer associated with the natural world, and does not have the environment on our balance sheets. It also disables the economy of choosing products and services that are sustainable or worthwhile (see EV production or going to Mars and "why" we haven't been able to afford it until now), because no one wants to pay the real cost to the natural world, and are only looking for a bargain to leverage somebody else's position to benefit their own.

Not everyone can just "trade" because if they did their would be no one left that actually makes or does something useful.

Having your own company(s) means work is being able to be productive in achieving your own ideas and goals for sustainable change. And then being able to teach and enable others, in particular the next generation, the principles on how to achieve sustainable goals in the face of economically induced environmental change. Having your own company doesn't make it successful either, neither is a company necessary at all, it's just a vehicle to allow you to maneuver in our economic systems with less resistance.

Overall, if we accept the reality that we are only temporary stewards of our realm of influence, our being only the DNA restructuring of dirt, and our existence dust to dust, then we can focus on supporting the next generation to achieve their goals and ambitions in a sustainable way. So that their offspring can also benefit from the progress they have made to mold the planet into a form that supports all life naturally and sustainably, and with as little as an impact as possible on the natural world.

If we don't at least try to share the same vision and goals for our combined future, then there will be no hope in achieving the mission of sustaining the light of consciousness, and by doing so "give meaning" to the universe. If only to ourselves, so that we can pursue our dreams and have something to live and strive for, all in an environment that also isn't persistently trying to bring about our premature demise.

I too have a dim view of "trading" but I never mentioned that activity. I'm talking about working and saving money and investing extra capital in real businesses. Without capital markets, being able to sell fractional ownership shares to the public, Tesla would not exist today.

Without public markets to trade fractional ownership of publicly traded companies (stock shares), no one would subscribe to the share offerings companies have from time to time to raise needed working capital. This is essential for the proper functioning of a capitalistic system and without all of this, we would still be living in medieval times in abject poverty

Money is an efficient way to trade value. If I work for you and you pay me $25/hour to mow your lawn (because you are a busy doctor, helping people who have broken bones and need surgury) then I can take that money and buy food for my family. The farmer can use that money to buy a tractor that can help him produce more food by tilling more acres.

Without a universal and convenient method to trade favors and value, it becomes very inefficient to exchange goods or services for other goods and/or services.

 

[Qball]

Ethics, moral and honesty is what you do when people aren’t looking. Money is merely a vehicle for modern society to function, which includes ethical and unethical things.

 

[Crissa]

Not to get political, but it's why ethics, laws, and regulations exist. Because some people will optimize in unhealthy, unfair, and unethical ways if that optimizes for their comfort or survival.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

I don't have a problem with using some form of "bartering aka trading" lubricant, but there are too many factors how currency is and has been misused. It simply has too many functions, and not enough distributed or defined control.

It is a resource allocator, a store of social debt (you wanting to be paid in it for working, so you can feed your family), a wealth store, a universal denominator for value (people and property), a motivator (for good and bad), a clandestine enabler and criminal corruptor (inc. white collar etc), a investment decision maker (ideas need to be profitable and can't even tried first, without proving they won't fail), a family disruptor, an anxiety multiplier, a court and law abuser (you only have the rights you can "afford" to defend), a lobbyist, a advertiser and promoter of poor and bad choices, an environment destroyer, war, a misnomer for valuing life in general. (I could go on)

Like a lot of things, individuals promote systems simply because they use them, because most of the time we use them for lack of any other alternative. "If" we had alternative options, that could be mass produced, streamlined and most importantly fully intentionally so, then we could actually choose them instead. Like EV's now, instead of ICE. Or solar offzgrid instead of network, wireless instead of wired etc etc.

The point is that I beleive we can do better, and like any other system that needs to change to survive, we need to change it, so we can survive it.

 

[happy intruder]

I don't watch professional sports for that reason. It's a waste of my time to root for my local or regional team because I didn't get to pick them.

However, stock investing is different. I pick the companies (teams) that I think will perform best, not over one week (game) but over the long run (season). I have a lot to base my decisions on, so it's not luck. Sure, I won't win every week (game), but if I picked the strongest companies (teams) then they are more likely to perform well over the long-term (season).

With sports teams, I could step outside my regional teams and pick ones on the other side of the country that I like better. At the end of the season, I still have wasted a lot of time because I don't get anything. Sure, I could place sports bets but the bookie adjusts the odds based on what other knowledgeable sports fans think. Worse, the bookie takes a rather significant cut of all the bets and so it's a net loss for betters overall.

In public stock markets, growth and productivity drive value. Stocks tend to go up overall because new value is being created as the economy grows larger over time. Companies in the S&P500 have appreciated, on average, around 8-9% per year for decades. Even if you know nothing, and throw darts to pick your stocks, you should average 8% per year and are able to compound that annually. That makes it very lucrative over the long-haul as long as the average rate of inflation remains below your rate of return.

I've invested only in the select companies I feel have the lowest risks and the highest potential returns and, doing this, I have averaged over 20% returns for over 30 years. You can turn ordinary savings into tens of millions of dollars with very little actual risk overall (once you average your gains and losses out). Sure, you actually have to save money to get started. But, if you stick with it, it will snowball on you until the point that you are no longer putting small amounts of money in, but are able to withdraw large amonts of money while still growing your account to ever higher values. I've been withdrawing money from my brokerage accounts to live on, to buy land, to upgrade houses and cars, to buy boats, etc. for over 20 years and it's still getting bigger. I do my investing research all in my spare time, for fun. And I no longer have to work, so I have lots of spare time. I guess I need to give myself another raise! Ha! That's a joke, I buy whatever I want.

All I can say is it's absolutely short-sighted to not invest for the future simply because you don't run any of the myriad of public companies yourself. You are not the only one who knows how to run a business and it doesn't matter when you have hundreds of well-run companies to select from and you only need to pick the best ones. Sure, you can try to grow your own business, but that is many times more risky than investing in companies that are already public. It also takes a lot more time. I considered running my own business many times but I'm glad I invested it and kept working instead. At least until I had enough to retire.

I agree 100%......I started investing in 1996.......Maxed out 401(k) contributions and had dividends reinvested.....I also took extra money and placed investments in Tesla and others.....I retired in 2014 and have been taking well over 100k out each year.....my investments are continuing to grow and the balances are getting larger.....I am very fortunate and feel like I have been able to provide for my wife and family......My wife worked in Human Resources for over 30 years with the Irvine Company and I suggested she put in the max contribution and then at 55 yrs old add a catch 5k.....even with all the reductions in 2008, we have managed to get all the paper losses back and live a great life and are able to give to our son and grandchildren.....it's very gratifying.

 

[SolarWizard]

that makes no sense as Tesla is not just an automaker.

Good chance it’s $110 by this time next week.
now im feeling like $100 or less is value territory

 

[charliemagpie]

It could end up a tug of war between recession /attacks and Tesla's improving quarterly performances.

 

[Ogre]

It could end up a tug of war between recession /attacks and Tesla's improving quarterly performances.

I suspect if Tesla has a few good quarters in a row things will start to clear up.

Seems like Tesla Energy is on an upswing. Lathrop looks like it might be cranking out 4.5 - 5GWh of Megachargers this quarter which is something like $3.5 billion in additional high margin revenue. Considering they broke ground on the facility September of 2021, that’s pretty remarkable. It is designed to be capable of producing 40GWh of Megapacks annually, it is essentially a monstrous money printing machine. That’s $30b additional revenue and $10b-15b net profit added to the bottom line.

Good to see something delivering on-time and without issues.

 

[jerhenderson]

Good chance it’s $110 by this time next week.
now im feeling like $100 or less is value territory

it's the economy... not the company.

 

[HaulingAss]

Good chance it’s $110 by this time next week.
now im feeling like $100 or less is value territory

I've made most of my money by buying great companies when the markets refused to value them for anything but a pittance. Tesla certainly qualifies as a great company, doing important and desirable things in an unusually efficient and effective manner.

Contrary to common fear, uncertainty and doubt articles demeaning Tesla any way they think they can, Tesla faces no real competitors. The biggest risks to Tesla are from powerful monied forces who want to slow Tesla down. These are the people and corporations who make money the old way, by polluting our only planet and selling poor value.

The reason I say Tesla has no real competitors is because the weak competitors they do have, have no ability to deliver real value. The current recession will highlight this fact. Recessions have a way of accelerating change. Disruption, like the ones driven by Tesla over the last decade, have a way of accelerating change. The reason recessions accelerate change is because it exposes those companies who are not, and cannot, offer good value. They go out of business or become shadows of their former selves.

Sure, GM likes to brag that they will bring 30 new EV's to market by 2025 but they have no ability to do so if you assume they are speaking of EV's that sell in volume, that consumers can actually buy. In other words, this is a bald-faced lie. They know cars have to be built in volume to be commercially viable (unless you are speaking of botique, high-priced brands like Ferrari, Bugatti, etc.) and GM has no ability to bring even 3 million EV's on the road by 2025 considering we are sitting on the cusp of 2023. They cannot even sell their two current EV's at high volume without losing even more money, the Bolt and the Hummer. These are not high volume cars nor are they in high demand because GM can't make them at a price point consumers find value in.

And Ford likes to brag they will be making 2 million EV's by 2026 but even that is a tall order considering they can't sell an EV at a gross profit now. Even Tesla was selling cars at a gross profit over a decade ago, in 2012, even if the company lost money overall due to low volumes and regular company overhead like R&D, administrative expenses, etc. The fact is, by ramping to higher production levels, while keeping a lid on costs, they are able to sell all of their models with industry leading profit margins.

There are a few small companies who stand a chance of being Tesla's competition in the future, companies who are not as bloated and fat and who are good at copying Tesla's innovations and bringing them to market relatively quickly (about 5-6 years after Tesla innovated the ideas). However, even companies in this category, companies like BYD, bring cars to market that are noticeably inferior to Tesla in fundamental ways (like strength to weight, range, efficiency, etc) and at a cost to produce that is higher than Tesla's cost to produce. This means they still have a lot of fundemental catching up to do before they can be considered true competition. Chances are, they will always be technology copy-cats bringing yesterday's Tesla to market today.

Too many people make the mistake of judging competition by looking at the MSRP and comparing products without realizing that real competition is determined, not by current MSRP, but by the cost of production. Because the low-cost producer can simply lower their prices to offer more value to the consumer while the higher cost producer would go bankrupt if they did so. Tesla has that pricing power over every other producer and, if this recession continues to deepen, you will see Tesla unlock that hidden advantage.

As long as most of the vehicle market is comprised of ICE vehicles, Tesla has no true competition. And, as long as Tesla maintians their rather large lead in terms of having a low cost to produce, and low corporate overhead, they have no true competition in the EV space.

Tesla's biggest competition is themselves. You read that correctly. As Tesla ramps production ever higher, they know they will have to lower prices to continue to sell everyone they can make. And they are willing to do this. Most companies in Tesla's position would slow production growth to maintain obscenely high margins but Tesla's goal is not to make as much money as possible at the expense of everything else, it's to transition the world to sustainable energy as quickly as possible.

Ironically, this is more dangerous to Tesla's "competitors" than if Tesla had profit as their number one motive because it forces them to bring more value to their customers than if Tesla decided to milk high margins. Tesla's business strategy will lower EV prices faster and with more certainty than if they had real competitors and Tesla just wanted to make the most amount of profit at the expense of increasing volumes. That's why I say Tesla's biggest competitor is themselves as they are single-mindedly focused on increasing prodiuction volumes as quickly as physically possible, even through a potential recession.

And that is very good news for autobuyers. Much better than the situation we have had for decades where auto makers grew fat and lazy with their marketshare as the cost of a new car ballooned to unaffordable levels as huge and inefficient corporations added layers of middle-management holding meaningless meanings on how to better market their cars to consumers to increase their marketshare by 1%. Tesla is blowing that fallacy wide open!

 

[OUTLAW]

Tesla growth perception has changed and its stock price will reflect That reality.

95% of T profits are from cars And market share is changing. Careful out there.

 

[Ogre]

Tesla growth perception has changed and its stock price will reflect That reality.

95% of T profits are from cars And market share is changing. Careful out there.

Tesla is not an auto company. They are a battery and technology company. Cars are their primary method of distributing batteries and artificial intelligence, but their other ventures are starting to bear fruits as well.

Tesla’s Lathrop mega factory is on track to produce $12-15 billion in Megapacks which they get very high margins on. They’ve been talking about this for some time, but it’s been under the radar. Solid chance this coming Q will be eye opening.

Also, the ground truth about Tesla hasn’t changed. Perception has. It will swing back.