Why Do Teslas Keep Smashing Emergency Vehicles? (Warning: Graphic images in article)

[jerhenderson]

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiVGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY2JheWFyZWEuY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvdGVzbGEtZmlyZS10cnVjay1jcmFzaC1pLTY4MC1lYXN0LWJheS8zMTYwOTg0L9IBWmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm5iY2JheWFyZWEuY29tL25ld3MvbG9jYWwvdGVzbGEtZmlyZS10cnVjay1jcmFzaC1pLTY4MC1lYXN0LWJheS8zMTYwOTg0Lz9hbXA9MQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

Anyone wanna venture a guess as to why (aside from the fact that the media chooses to focus on anything that can be considered a “Tesla Hit-piece”) that there have been so many incidents of autopilot veering into or close to parked emergency vehicles with their flashing lights? (The article does not say whether autopilot was engaged, but i think there is implication of such)

it's implied without evidence of such ..... the usual FUD.

 

[Deleted member 12457]

Fire engine was parked diagonally on the freeway, not necessarily in just one lane. Has anyone with a Tesla driven by a fire engine and noticed a larger vehicle on their screen or are almost all vehicles displayed as the same size? FSD might have tried to changed lanes but it wouldn't surprise me if FSD didn't identify an obstruction early enough. At 4am it would have been dark and as others have said the flashing lights might have messed up FSD. At this time on a Saturday on I-680 the driver would have been exceeding the speed limit (65 mph) because everyone on that freeway drives too fast even during commute time. Been there, done that!!!

 

[Crissa]

Fire engine was parked diagonally on the freeway, not necessarily in just one lane. Has anyone with a Tesla driven by a fire engine and noticed a larger vehicle on their screen or are almost all vehicles displayed as the same size? FSD might have tried to changed lanes but it wouldn't surprise me if FSD didn't identify an obstruction early enough. At 4am it would have been dark and as others have said the flashing lights might have messed up FSD. At this time on a Saturday on I-680 the driver would have been exceeding the speed limit (65 mph) because everyone on that freeway drives too fast even during commute time. Been there, done that!!!

No.

FSD can recognize vehicles across lanes. Its display is not updated at the same rate as its recognition system.

And, as pointed out, that FSD did anything or not is irrelevant. The driver is responsible.

The vehicle was traveling at a way high speed in the number one of four lanes. That is not FSD's fault or Autopilot's MO.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Strobe frequency of emergency light automatically disables FSD. It's a feature not a failure.

From the point of impact and damage to the MS it's looks to me like the fire truck was changing lanes, or the steered ladder trailer was off angle. There's a wheel lodged between the trailer and the tractor part which is likely where the MS went under. The photos are from after they took the trailer off the MS. Either way It seems that either the driver aimed for what he was trying to avoid because he was looking at it (which is the primary reason for most crashes) and/or the firetruck was across the lane, seemingly unnecessarily so. (what do you need a fire ladder for on the hwy?)

 

[John K]

what do you need a fire ladder for on the hwy?)

barrier to protect emergency workers. Nothing wrong with the application.

 

[JBee]

barrier to protect emergency workers. Nothing wrong with the application.

Ah really? That sounds pretty dumb.
Here you get the cops to flag down cars further up the road, then you get them to merge into a free lane, or you setup a detour on the previous off ramp and take all the traffic off the road. But you definitely don't get a semi to block the lanes for emergency worker protection. I seriously doubt that was the case here, as 4 of them are in hospital too?

 

[Zabhawkin]

Ah really? That sounds pretty dumb.
Here you get the cops to flag down cars further up the road, then you get them to merge into a free lane, or you setup a detour on the previous off ramp and take all the traffic off the road. But you definitely don't get a semi to block the lanes for emergency worker protection. I seriously doubt that was the case here, as 4 of them are in hospital too?

Its pretty common here to use a large heavy vehicle to protect all of the squishy people working the accident from someone not paying attention. Its also why at least in one city in my state they have a special truck that has crash mitigation built onto the back of it.

Taking a look at the pictures I am not even going to completely blame the driver... It looks like there are no lights on the ladder portion, and at the angle it looks like the ladder was blocking the lights on the cab.

 

[59sjordan]

What I don’t get is why the owners do it and also curious if they can really do what they said they would and stay fully attentive when they are sharing the kitchen with another cook (FSD) 100% of the time. If that was your own screenshot you shared, the following would answer my question:

Why did you click on yes?

Do you or have you ever owned TSLA (donating your resources to protect your investment makes a bit of sense).

Were you able to pay attention the entire time it was enabled as much as you would in a vehicle without driver assistance or there were occasions that it was doing such a good job you found yourself enjoying the scenery?

To answer the question about paying attention while using FSD....

I am currently an FSD Beta tester with my M3, the answer is two parts. I find that I can relax and enjoy some parts of driving more when using FSD and other parts of my drive are more difficult and require much more attention than before. I do it because I am fascinated to be on the cutting edge, it is actually fun for me (most of the time).

I'll try to explain; Things like steering and staying in my lane, require so much less effort. I find myself being able to see things that I didn't see before. Recently I noticed a mailbox in the middle of a farm field (I believe it is from an old farmhouse that has been long gone, but they didn't tear down the mailbox) that I hadn't seen for the last 10 years of driving the same road. I also find that I don't stress as much about stop-and-go traffic or sudden slowdowns. I have also NEVER had my car try to run a red light, or miss a stop sign. These are things people do regularly.

On the other hand, lane changes, stop signs, or just city driving seems to require more attention at this point. It is not life-threatening things that I have to worry about, just if the car is in the correct lane (sometimes I cuss at the car for trying to switch to the right lane when I have a left turn coming up in 200 feet).

The situations where I Feel like I need to pay more attention are not life threatening. I don't worry about the car changing lanes into another car, or ramming someone head on, or even turning left in front of oncoming traffic.

Does it behave perfectly at all time? Absolutely not! Do I feel safer using FSD (and AP)? Absolutely YES!

As others have stated, if my car notices emergency lights, it will slow down and display a notification. I haven't run across the scenario from the above article where I was willing to let the car continue to handle the situation. I would take over, as should have the driver of the Model S in the article.

But, also what the article fails to differentiate, and most people don't understand, is that there is a difference between Full Self Driving and AutoPilot (for now, Elon has promised single stack next month, two months ago). And what most people don't realize is that FSD and AP are currently independent and used at different times. AP is used on Intersates and limited access highways, while FSD covers the rest. So, when I'm driving down the road leaving my house, the car will be in FSD until it merges onto the interstate, and AP will take over. The two different software actually have two similar, but different types of display renderings.

The article state that the Model S involved was 'among the 363,000 vehicles Tesla recalled.' And I'm not sure how they know this. Because even if the driver was using AP at the time of the accident, they were not using FSD even if it was equipped. So the recall has absolutely nothing to do with this crash! It is, at its best, negligent and ignorant writing, and at the worst, a complete hit piece trying to make Tesla look bad.

 

[Deleted member 12457]

No.

FSD can recognize vehicles across lanes. Its display is not updated at the same rate as its recognition system.

And, as pointed out, that FSD did anything or not is irrelevant. The driver is responsible.

The vehicle was traveling at a way high speed in the number one of four lanes. That is not FSD's fault or Autopilot's MO.

-Crissa

Thanks for the update.

 

[Diehard]

To answer the question about paying attention while using FSD....

I am currently an FSD Beta tester with my M3, the answer is two parts. I find that I can relax and enjoy some parts of driving more when using FSD and other parts of my drive are more difficult and require much more attention than before. I do it because I am fascinated to be on the cutting edge, it is actually fun for me (most of the time).

I'll try to explain; Things like steering and staying in my lane, require so much less effort. I find myself being able to see things that I didn't see before. Recently I noticed a mailbox in the middle of a farm field (I believe it is from an old farmhouse that has been long gone, but they didn't tear down the mailbox) that I hadn't seen for the last 10 years of driving the same road. I also find that I don't stress as much about stop-and-go traffic or sudden slowdowns. I have also NEVER had my car try to run a red light, or miss a stop sign. These are things people do regularly.

On the other hand, lane changes, stop signs, or just city driving seems to require more attention at this point. It is not life-threatening things that I have to worry about, just if the car is in the correct lane (sometimes I cuss at the car for trying to switch to the right lane when I have a left turn coming up in 200 feet).

The situations where I Feel like I need to pay more attention are not life threatening. I don't worry about the car changing lanes into another car, or ramming someone head on, or even turning left in front of oncoming traffic.

Does it behave perfectly at all time? Absolutely not! Do I feel safer using FSD (and AP)? Absolutely YES!

As others have stated, if my car notices emergency lights, it will slow down and display a notification. I haven't run across the scenario from the above article where I was willing to let the car continue to handle the situation. I would take over, as should have the driver of the Model S in the article.

But, also what the article fails to differentiate, and most people don't understand, is that there is a difference between Full Self Driving and AutoPilot (for now, Elon has promised single stack next month, two months ago). And what most people don't realize is that FSD and AP are currently independent and used at different times. AP is used on Intersates and limited access highways, while FSD covers the rest. So, when I'm driving down the road leaving my house, the car will be in FSD until it merges onto the interstate, and AP will take over. The two different software actually have two similar, but different types of display renderings.

The article state that the Model S involved was 'among the 363,000 vehicles Tesla recalled.' And I'm not sure how they know this. Because even if the driver was using AP at the time of the accident, they were not using FSD even if it was equipped. So the recall has absolutely nothing to do with this crash! It is, at its best, negligent and ignorant writing, and at the worst, a complete hit piece trying to make Tesla look bad.

very helpful response. Thank you,

 

[SwampNut]

My bet would be that we find out the driver was drunk, and then of course MSM will stop covering it because it's not a TESLAS BAD story.

Aside from that, you'd have to be a complete moron to let AP keep control in any sort of non-normal, well marked situation. I've put over 16k on our car, and easily 95% of it on AP. I turn it on nearly all the time. I've learned that its unpredictability is predictable. Meaning that vague lines, or weird lanes, are an issue. Something it doesn't expect to see can be an issue, so either I take over or hold the wheel ready to do so more quickly. It slows for bicycles a lot, way too much to be safe, so I take over. It slows for emergency vehicles, which is probably correct, but since nobody else does it could actually be more dangerous; I take over completely.

I love tech, I trust tech, and I also am not lazy/stupid enough to think that I should avoid 20 seconds of manual driving when there's any question at all.

 

[NJturtlePower]

Why they keep crashing....Hummmm cuz the drivers are typically arrogant know-it-all pricks that go to lengths to be lazy and try to override safety measures in place with steering wheel weights, weight in seats, etc. just from my from experience and interactions of course.

Remember the back seat clowns from Texas...yeah. ?‍

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-crash-spring-texas-deaths-mystery-solved-ntsb/

 

[SwampNut]

You can have my steering wheel weight when you pry it from my cold dead fingers (after I crash). It doesn't mean I'm not paying attention, just like having a useless hand on the wheel doesn't mean you are paying attention.

I'm also enjoying the battle of wits with Elon. They figured out how to detect it, on the "normal" side which is the left. So I moved it to the right. Fixed.

 

[SolarWizard]

Any other brand, they would've just referred to it as a "car". To the MSM, there are cars, and then there are Teslas.

They do mention Autopilot (with convenient speculation) at the bottom of the article.

Of course we're going to hear much more about this because this is blood in the water for the MSM.

From the pictures (https://t.co/YCGn8We1bK), to me this looks like a high speed impact with no brakes applied (couldn't see any tire skid marks either), which would suggest that Autopilot was likely not engaged. From the car's mangled front end appearance, they had to be going pretty fast, and so fast that airbags couldn't save the driver.

Of course the MSM will likely get that wrong since they can later claim mistakes with no liable even if they know they were lying on purpose.

I'd be interested to know if the Automatic Emergency Braking feature was even enabled because I don't see any tire skid marks, although the cars could've been moved and there is a lot of debris around. But with ABS actuating the wheels may not have locked or skidded even if the Auto Emergency Braking was applied. It should kick in with or without Autopilot though if it's enabled, so the data to show whether that feature had been enabled or not, will be telling. I hope Tesla might release limited data to reveal what the actual speed of impact was.

I bet we won't even hear about toxicology tests results of the driver unless they're totally negative (because its a Tesla).

- ÆCIII

Tesla repeatedly claims to be the safest cars on the road. Any crash deserves extra scrutiny because of that alone, aside from the brand being buZzworthy

 

[MEDICALJMP]

Why they keep crashing....Hummmm cuz the drivers are typically arrogant know-it-all pricks that go to lengths to be lazy and try to override safety measures in place with steering wheel weights, weight in seats, etc. just from my from experience and interactions of course.

Remember the back seat clowns from Texas...yeah. ?‍

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-crash-spring-texas-deaths-mystery-solved-ntsb/

interesting. The crash reporting was everywhere when it happened. I just learned (the expected) results from you posting that link. Hmm. No witch to burn here (no pun intended) so no need to trumpet the findings, we did our damage so moving on.