Off-topic keep moving - M2

[CyberMoose]

Center Display is mantle piece. Other brands following suit are praying homage to technology hoping the success Tesla has had elevating its status can be theirs as well. They haven’t invested frunk to trunk the amount of R&D in technology as has Tesla.

Its a bold move, for sure. Tesla would switch to stalks, steering control buttons and roller knobs without a display. Its boldest move would be VoIP over dynamic display control. Turn by Turn voice feedback. It’d be a different platform than Tesla has used ever by any carmaker. AI + Robotics integration.

You stand on the probability that its Center Display is Home base and Tesla got there first. It‘s safe. But as SteveJobs warned “if you aren’t disrupting yourself - someone else will”.

I'm not really following here. Are you saying you think Tesla will have no display at all? A screen really isn't all that expensive. Tesla doesn't need to put the same computer in a cheaper car or a screen as big as it does in the other models.

sure using voice controlls and getting turn by turn directions would work, but I don't think that there would be many people who would prefer that over a display. I'm also assuming that there is probably a way to turn on turn by turn navigation in a Tesla but I don't know.
If someone likes to listen to music, or they are using hands free calling, or maybe they just want to look ahead to see how far they have to go, a screen is a lot better for that.

The biggest things I would be thinking if I was Tesla is how many parts do they have to add back without a display. You would need an analog instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. They would need to put door lock buttons back in since that's done on the display. They would need some sort of pairing button to pair new phones or cards with the car. You would also need to add buttons to open the frunk, and trunk. This can also be done on the app but obviously that won't help if you lend your car to someone with just the card. You already mentioned that they would need to bring back stalks, steering controls, and roller knobs for a lot of other functions.

I don't consider these things to be bold moves. They would just turn themselves around and go back to what everyone else is doing. The bold moves were getting rid of so many physical parts to interact with. New Teslas don't have stalks, keys, and 90% of the buttons that a traditional vehicle does. You have a button to open the door, window controls and then shifting from drive/park/reverse in case the screen is ever broken.

The biggest thing to look at is what is actually going to reduce the cost of the vehicle. This isn't really something we can say with confidence unless we had a full list of costs in front of us and whether it'll make production take more or less time to build. Some of us will think that going back to analog controls would be cheaper, some think part elimination is cheaper, we'll just have to wait and see what Tesla does.

 

[rr6013]

At present, Tesla is platformed on Nvidia GPU dual AMD CPU to run PS5 gamimg level graphics on their Center Display. Its not gonna look great Tesla running TFT cheapo displays. Nor is depracating their platform backward in time to accommodate cheaper displays.

Exactly right, for an entry level BEV no center display! That’s $3k saving off MSRP. Entry level should feature the thrill of driving a Tesla not the prestige(as in the technological gambit). The design brief should read Safety, Low cost, Lightweight and Fun.

The technological doodads are the next step up to M3. M2(whatever name Tesla concocts) is a StarterBEV, 2nd Tesla or TransitionBEV from ICE. Its the one car that should be engineered backwards from production, systems, UX, engineersing, design to parts list @ $25k MSRP.

 

[CyberMoose]

so you think it looks better on Tesla to go back to analog instrument panels, with knobs and tons of buttons, than it does to have a smaller display? Also the display isn't $3,000. Maybe the cost to replace the screen and MCU together might be that much. Whether or not there is a display, modern cars still have computers in them. Unless you want to get rid of all computer controls like opening the doors with anything other than using the keyhole, not even having a fob. That's the only way you are getting rid of a computer.

Now like i've said, there is no way for us to know which option would be cheaper.

Also something that I completely forgot until now. In Canada and the US, it is required by law for a vehicle to have a back up camera. So there is already going to be a display in any vehicle that Tesla makes. The cheapest car in Canada is the chevy spark which is less than half the cost of what Tesla wants to make and it has a digital instrument display and a small center display. I don't see it necessary for Tesla to go less digital than everyone else to make a car that won't be the cheapest on the market.

I'm not sure if you just want fully analog gauges and manual controls for a car. There has been some growing popularity for that, but i've only seen that in more expensive, non production vehicles. Everyone else seems to be going away from that style.

 

[Crissa]

The display in a Model 3 isn't the same as the one in the Model S. It doesn't run the same graphics at all.

So why would it be a surprise that the Model 2 has inferior graphics?

A Wii vs a Switch vs a PS5.

-Crissa

 

[rr6013]

so you think it looks better on Tesla to go back to analog instrument panels, with knobs and tons of buttons, than it does to have a smaller display? <SNIP>

I'm not sure if you just want fully analog gauges and manual controls for a car. There has been some growing popularity for that, but i've only seen that in more expensive, non production vehicles. Everyone else seems to be going away from that style.

I get you. Its Center Display all the way down. An existential phenomenon.

When we started mass Internet in early 1990 the existential question was “how much”. Two camps emerged metered and fibre to the belly button. The belly button crowd was prescient in seeing an insatiable aspect to Internet. Metered went wireless with their algorithms throttling scarcity.

You are acknowledging center display to the belly button. And I respect that as prescient. Consumer is the product - Car another node on the internet.

I’m past retro as in retro Bronco, Defender et. al. I see, at the transition in this post digital moment, analog’s recent history is not steampunk. Digital and analog co-exist in a post digital milieu. The only belief I hold is the calming influence an analog clock imparts upon human occupants. SO I’m fine if analog works. I’m a pioneer. Early adopter doesn’t scare me but I don’t throw out the proven, either.

Tesla have upgraded two major concerns that I find admirable - 12v wet to LiON battery and handles as in “no handles“. Both win-wins! Millenials are the next largest cohort behind a dwindling Baby Boomer cohort. Most can’t afford a Tesla but own the stock, instead. They are smart. My two millennials are ambivalent technologists. Both work in high tech. They would buy a Tesla if they thought the price was warranted neither want to spend MX money on a car. Both were raised stick shift first and love roadtrips. Petroleum automakers provide them offers they can’t refuse - one Audi the other Mazda. Both AWD. Both are display agnostics. But that has more to do with staring 12hr/da 7da/week professionally and not wanting to have to stare at one inside their car.

So I come to M2 with an agnostic bias not steampunk desire for bygone era. Roadtrips are relevent to automotive travel still. Standard transmissions are steampunk aspirations. Digital displays are cool same as 4x4. AWD is a technological platform in 4x4 robes. Suburu AWD platform embarrasses most 4x4’s.

M2 is Starter car entry BEV to the brand. Its Urban, step car in the right direction for ICE transitioners, if you’ll allow. It’s a 2nd Tesla for those Tesla owners who need another. And its utilitarian over sporty as in 4passenger. It can be a 2door Tesla-Lite(as in light beer). Its ice cream runs, Friday night lights and roadtrip Sundays. So 140 mi. battery.

I’m fine with center display, FSD, Autopilot and biowarfare defence if it ticks $25k. Otherwise, lose it. Get butts off ICE. The addiction to BEV is torque under your toe ICE cannot match. The rest of ADAS techno-minimalism Tesla does so well is there for the willing and able.

M2 is essential. Its not aspirant other than Tesla know-how inherent in its translation. Its 2025—2035 maximum. Technology could cut that into DOJO yrs.

M2 doesn’t happen fast, cheap and utilitarian - mass transit arises. I’m OK with that too. But CoV-2 SARS makes M2 the preferred option.

 

[CyberMoose]

I get you. Its Center Display all the way down. An existential phenomenon.

When we started mass Internet in early 1990 the existential question was “how much”. Two camps emerged metered and fibre to the belly button. The belly button crowd was prescient in seeing an insatiable aspect to Internet. Metered went wireless with their algorithms throttling scarcity.

You are acknowledging center display to the belly button. And I respect that as prescient. Consumer is the product - Car another node on the internet.

I’m past retro as in retro Bronco, Defender et. al. I see, at the transition in this post digital moment, analog’s recent history is not steampunk. Digital and analog co-exist in a post digital milieu. The only belief I hold is the calming influence an analog clock imparts upon human occupants. SO I’m fine if analog works. I’m a pioneer. Early adopter doesn’t scare me but I don’t throw out the proven, either.

Tesla have upgraded two major concerns that I find admirable - 12v wet to LiON battery and handles as in “no handles“. Both win-wins! Millenials are the next largest cohort behind a dwindling Baby Boomer cohort. Most can’t afford a Tesla but own the stock, instead. They are smart. My two millennials are ambivalent technologists. Both work in high tech. They would buy a Tesla if they thought the price was warranted neither want to spend MX money on a car. Both were raised stick shift first and love roadtrips. Petroleum automakers provide them offers they can’t refuse - one Audi the other Mazda. Both AWD. Both are display agnostics. But that has more to do with staring 12hr/da 7da/week professionally and not wanting to have to stare at one inside their car.

So I come to M2 with an agnostic bias not steampunk desire for bygone era. Roadtrips are relevent to automotive travel still. Standard transmissions are steampunk aspirations. Digital displays are cool same as 4x4. AWD is a technological platform in 4x4 robes. Suburu AWD platform embarrasses most 4x4’s.

M2 is Starter car entry BEV to the brand. Its Urban, step car in the right direction for ICE transitioners, if you’ll allow. It’s a 2nd Tesla for those Tesla owners who need another. And its utilitarian over sporty as in 4passenger. It can be a 2door Tesla-Lite(as in light beer). Its ice cream runs, Friday night lights and roadtrip Sundays. So 140 mi. battery.

I’m fine with center display, FSD, Autopilot and biowarfare defence if it ticks $25k. Otherwise, lose it. Get butts off ICE. The addiction to BEV is torque under your toe ICE cannot match. The rest of ADAS techno-minimalism Tesla does so well is there for the willing and able.

M2 is essential. Its not aspirant other than Tesla know-how inherent in its translation. Its 2025—2035 maximum. Technology could cut that into DOJO yrs.

M2 doesn’t happen fast, cheap and utilitarian - mass transit arises. I’m OK with that too. But CoV-2 SARS makes M2 the preferred option.

Clearly this conversation is going about as far as the range on a Nikola Badger uphill.

 

[rr6013]

Clearly this conversation is going about as far as the range on a Nikola Badger uphill.

R.I.P. M2