Gates shorts $TSLA?

[TheLastStarfighter]

Shorting should be illegal. The goal of the stock market should be to provide businesses capital to advance. Shorting is betting on failure. What does that serve, other than those who make money on the gamble? Further, it creates situations where people short a stock, then work to have their position fulfilled, with bad press, etc. This has happened repeatedly with Tesla with fake stories on EV fires, etc. A Hyundai is far more likely to burn. Shorts are unethical and unvaluable.

 

[Qball]

Anyone who short Tesla can suck it! Fortunately it will not make any difference because Tesla is simply that amazing. Like the good old saying, bet against Elon at your own peril. Maybe giving money to others in the stock market is Bill’s idea of philanthropy?!?!?

 

[Sirfun]

Here's Bill Gates talking about EV's, 8/2020.

"You’ll even be able to buy an all-electric pick-up truck soon thanks to legacy companies like GM and Ford and new carmakers like Rivian and Bollinger."

No mention of Tesla. Then he goes on to give his opinion that 18 wheeler will probably not work with batteries. Hmmm.
Here's his writings:
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/Moving-around-in-a-zero-carbon-world

 

[SpaceYooper]

I don't short. I don't understand the stock market. I don't even invest in the market. I have 0 equity in any ROTH, IRA, nor 401k. The only thing I have is is a little invested in TSP but I stopped contributing to that more then a decade ago.

Having said that, I think shorting is probably ok. If I place a bet I expect there will be people to bet against it. If you can only place bets for something to go up will that create a unbalanced market? I feel like you should be able to bet for and against a stock. Just me. WRT TSLA, let the losers keep losing.

 

[Ogre]

I don't short. I don't understand the stock market. I don't even invest in the market. I have 0 equity in any ROTH, IRA, nor 401k. The only thing I have is is a little invested in TSP but I stopped contributing to that more then a decade ago.

Having said that, I think shorting is probably ok. If I place a bet I expect there will be people to bet against it. If you can only place bets for something to go up will that create a unbalanced market? I feel like you should be able to bet for and against a stock. Just me. WRT TSLA, let the losers keep losing.

I am not betting on a stock. It is ownership.

There is no other place in our society where you can un-own something. Imagine for a second how the real estate market would work if you could sell property you don’t own.

 

[firsttruck]

I don't short. I don't understand the stock market. I don't even invest in the market. I have 0 equity in any ROTH, IRA, nor 401k. The only thing I have is is a little invested in TSP but I stopped contributing to that more then a decade ago.

Having said that, I think shorting is probably ok. If I place a bet I expect there will be people to bet against it. If you can only place bets for something to go up will that create a unbalanced market? I feel like you should be able to bet for and against a stock. Just me. WRT TSLA, let the losers keep losing.

Shorting, high frequency trading and front running are not investing.

High frequency trading, front running is actually a rigged system to cheat honest traders, investors and business needing capital.

Honest shorting is at best gambling. A casino. At worst shorting could be used to destroy another business for profit.

A nation's or the world economy of billions people should not be based on a foundation of gambling.

 

[John K]

If I bought stock Monday, the stock rose 100 points by Wednesday.

The company issue a recall Wednesday, I sold my stock first and pocketed the 100 points.

Due to lemming panic, the stock drop 150 points by first before everyone became calm. I repurchase the same amount of shares Friday and pocket the 50 point delta.

In this hypothetical, did I do something immoral? Unethical? Was I betting against the company?

Now, if I pay someone on Monday to borrow those same amount of shares with an agreement of returning the same shares and pay them 10 points per shares, would entering into a contract to borrow shares be unethical. The owner will receive guaranteed money and the use of their shares on Friday.

It is unethical and rightfully illegal to manipulate the market. Unfortunately, when obviously done, investigations and punishment cannot be done,

While I do not have interest in borrowing stocks to short, how is doing so hurting the company when they do not see any money on publicly traded shares?

I am attempting to separate and understand the evil from a disliked practice.

 

[flowerlandfilms]

Bill Gates has monetary interest in a hydrogen powered future.
He is shorting Tesla in an aggressive attempt to harm it.
Yes, that is unethical.

 

[John K]

Bill Gates has monetary interest in a hydrogen powered future.
He is shorting Tesla in an aggressive attempt to harm it.
Yes, that is unethical.

How is shorting TSLA stock harming Tesla as a company? Is it because his action is public knowledge?

 

[TruckDaddy]

"I am attempting to separate and understand the evil from a disliked practice." ~John K

A lot of folks see capitalism as bad. "Buying low and selling higher is bad!" How do they expect any company to have incentive to build any products whatsoever, or provide jobs and services?

In the commodities markets, is it wrong to see a glut of products that is speculated that demand will not exist for, and sell (short) at a high price, with the right of buying back the obligation at a soon to be lower price?

I don't agree with false news or sensationalized reports to bolster those with conflicts of interest to do so. (They are not part of a Union, make sure you never mention them in a positive way, or write bills that become law that will help them profit.)

 

[flowerlandfilms]

1 - Companies that are heavily shorted find it harder to gain investors.
2 - Any short position in any company creates further incentives for agents to act against the
interests of that company.
3- When a powerful figure like Gates takes a stand against your company,
by supporting or even remaining neutral on that company you are now against Bill Gates.

He has done this before repeatedly, either creating competition for or being anti-competitive against other technologies that threaten his core investments. X-Box only exists because Sony Playstations were becoming more capable computers. Windows Phone and subsequent purchase of Nokia because of the success of iPhones. Internet Explorer because of Netscape. Violations of the Sherman Antitrust act out the wazoo.

He is the monopoly man. I's a clear pattern of behaviour.

 

[CyberGus]

Long-term stock holders are investors. The "gamblers" that trade on swings, shorts and derivatives may not be investors, but they help supply liquidity.

When short-sellers take profits, they must buy the stock to close out their positions. This actually props up the stock price as it is dropping.

The problem I see with shorts is the abuse. When Elon bought 5% of Twitter he was obligated to report, but Gates could short Tesla by $500M and he didn't need to tell anyone jack shit. There also appears to be no limit on the amount of shorting for a given company, as we saw with the whole Gamestop shenanigans.

If it is any consolation, several billion dollars of Musk's wealth came at Gates' expense

 

[jerhenderson]

Long-term stock holders are investors. The "gamblers" that trade on swings, shorts and derivatives may not be investors, but they help supply liquidity.

When short-sellers take profits, they must buy the stock to close out their positions. This actually props up the stock price as it is dropping.

The problem I see with shorts is the abuse. When Elon bought 5% of Twitter he was obligated to report, but Gates could short Tesla by $500M and he didn't need to tell anyone jack shit. There also appears to be no limit on the amount of shorting for a given company, as we saw with the whole Gamestop shenanigans.

If it is any consolation, several billion dollars of Musk's wealth came at Gates' expense

.... and the SEC etc seem entirely unwilling or unable to pursue short sellers that are actively manipulating stocks with false news and stories bent to serve lowering stock price.

 

[John K]

.... and the SEC etc seem entirely unwilling or unable to pursue short sellers that are actively manipulating stocks with false news and stories bent to serve lowering stock price.

What about investors who are actively manipulating stocks with false news and stories bent to serve INCREASING stock price?

Why does adding the position to short make manipulating stock evil. If you manipulate stock for gains, is the activity heroic? Or, is the act of manipulating detestable regardless of investing position?

The discussion reminds me of merging lane dilemma.

Heavy traffic, lane merges to one to the left. A car in front decides to merge early pressing way in while holding traffic up in the lane. A gap is created in front as the car waits for someone to let him into the lane to the left. Once let in, there is a sizable gap in front before the lane officially merges.

Dilemma: Does the next car merge at that point or does the next gate travel past ten cars or so to merge at the designated point?

Further compounding, car goes to merge point, a car to the left goes half into my lane and stays half into their lane blocking me. They do so because they feel s9 one is cutting in line traveling the empty lane while they wait. Do I go around and merge at the designated spot, honk my horn or merge in behind the guy who thinks he is being wronged while having his car take two lanes.

Analogy is meant to show some may have passionate conflicting viewpoints with others on the matter.

 

[Sirfun]

.... and the SEC etc seem entirely unwilling or unable to pursue short sellers that are actively manipulating stocks with false news and stories bent to serve lowering stock price.

That's the problem I have with all this crap. All these false stories and manipulating done by people and institutions. All for the sake of acquiring more wealth.
When the fact that Gates had half a billion on the line, trying to multiply it into more money. Then you get a better understanding of what his motives were for writing crap like this.
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Energy/Moving-around-in-a-zero-carbon-world

When Gates makes bets like that, purely for the sake of making himself more money. That reveals his true character.