Starship Orbital Test Flight - 4/20 Launch

[JBee]

Mars is an entirely different problem space. Lower gravity and less atmosphere means they don’t need near as much thrust.

Also, I don’t think they will be lifting much weight from Mars at first, mostly just getting people and empty ships back to orbit where they would transfer to another ship that goes to earth.

That also means the ground won't be quite as dense and the lack of water means it will be less compacted. Some parts could be like bulldust here, which is actually dangerous as it likes filling potholes etc

For a repulsive landing that would turn a Starship into a Boring machine, and it would land in Mars not on it, let alone cover the engines etc.

Unless they do a orbital transfer to another vehicle, they also need to take enough fuel with when they land, so togethercwith a useful payload will generally be quite heavy for a Mars landing.

 

[Crissa]

...they also need to take enough fuel with when they land, so togethercwith a useful payload will generally be quite heavy for a Mars landing.

Mars will have its own fuel production by then. Theoretically. We had a test of the chemistry on one of the recent probes.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Mars will have its own fuel production by then. Theoretically. We had a test of the chemistry on one of the recent probes.

-Crissa

I don't think they will have fuel production before they have people there, they need water for oxygen production. So they will need to take everything with. I thought the first mission was three robo ships and then a manned one..

 

[cvalue13]

Yeah, it will be an issue, but I think it will be some sort of steel landing pad, like what EM mentioned was meant to be installed on the Starship pad before launch. I think there will be some sort of modular steel panel fabrication (mars is red because it's iron ore) for all building projects, that could also be used for surfacing roads and launch pads.

Not for a landing pad I’d assume, but don’t know if you’re familiar with ICON, based here in Austin

they’ve got a sizeable contract with NASA fora structure printer at the moon. idea is to use ‘local’ dust/rock as base for the ~concrete

 

[charliemagpie]

I think apart from initially using the rockets themselves, Using Boring machine, Mars infrustructure (Aeroponics, Storage, Living quarters) could be initially underground rather than above.

Maybe why SpaceX is just across the road from the Boring Company.

 

[JBee]

I sure hope they don't have to ship cement up and can produce it on the moon somehow... ? maybe they should ask Home Depot to put a store there first? ? ? (sorry ccouldn't resist)

Cement production is also high energy, but I seriously have no idea what the chemistry will be that they can use there, that can be sourced locally. I don't know how well it will work without steel reinforcement either, and a layer pour like that 3D printer might be ok for buildings but not for launch pads. Maybe Boring company has a solution for both tunnelling of habitats and extraction of resources at the same time. Ant farm style, they could even do termite mound ventilation.

On Mars its the same problem, but there they can use steel as well at least, or just steel for that matter if they have to make it for reinforcement anyway. There's also nickel on Mars so stainless would be in the cards to cut maintenance and the multi-billion dollar paintshop. They might be able to use a Starship for parts too, and unfurl one into a pad. Or maybe the landing legs of the Starship can be built so they form a pad to land on when you take the top off, or slide the tube out. Actually you could have the first couple land with a actual pad around it, and then they can land on it and leave it there when they take off. Either way most of what they need on the first few missions will need to be shipped there first I think.

The only other option is to find a hard rocky place with probes to land on first, or find a hut from one of the locals to land on like we did in the colonial days. I mean why shouldn't we return the favour seeing they left us with those darn pointy launch pads in Egypt that they enslaved us to build? Lol. The biggest challenge will be getting something close to or in the Mariner Valley (4km deep) where a first base would be protected a bit, and have denser atmosphere which makes suits and habitats lighter and easier to build. All I see is lots and lots of work in a very difficult work environment.

 

[cvalue13]

Cement production is also high energy, but I seriously have no idea what the chemistry will be that they can use there, that can be sourced locally. I don't know how well it will work without steel reinforcement either, and a layer pour like that 3D printer might be ok for buildings but not for launch pads.

I’m not sure they know yet, either

In theory, NASA found it worth an initial $60MM investment in the concept

but it appears they are thinking more about heat/lasers, than concrete

Under a prior contract with NASA, ICON built the habitats at Johnson space sender - where NASA’s doing the 1-year Mars living habitats

it’s an interesting company. I’ve been trying to get in over there for some time now.

I’ve also always thought they could end up being an interesting pickup by Musk. Aside from the space connection, they also print communities of tiny homes for the needy, at about a home a day

 

[JBee]

I’m not sure they know yet, either

In theory, NASA found it worth an initial $60MM investment in the concept

but it appears they are thinking more about heat/lasers, than concrete

Under a prior contract with NASA, ICON built the habitats at Johnson space sender - where NASA’s doing the 1-year Mars living habitats

it’s an interesting company. I’ve been trying to get in over there for some time now.

I’ve also always thought they could end up being an interesting pickup by Musk. Aside from the space connection, they also print communities of tiny homes for the needy, at about a home a day

Yeah they do look interesting. I would like to have a look as well if that's possible, might have to see if I can contact them before our trip. I'm more interested in the earth based implementation for low cost housing, but hey if you can make everything at once that's even better.

I quite like the Marsha shape below and I have a concept idea for a rotating telescopic 3D printer that can print it from the inside, but then can simply retract down the centre staircase shaft to a size that can fit out a standard door. I also have a self climbing version similar to high rise cranes, for larger structures. My version lays a flat rolled inflatable fibre tube that acts as reinforcement and inflates to reduce material use and increases the insulation properties of the structure. Sort of a hybrid inflatable 3D printed structure. The same tube can also be used for services, like hydronic heating and cooling, HVAC and electrical, lights etc. The tube could also be translucent in sections for natural lighting.

 

[Crissa]

I think apart from initially using the rockets themselves, Using Boring machine, Mars infrustructure (Aeroponics, Storage, Living quarters) could be initially underground rather than above.

Maybe why SpaceX is just across the road from the Boring Company.

Robots.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

I think most of the initial robots will be specialised ones according to the task. Universal ones will be less common until they can match human performance, or do mediocre tasks unsupervised for long period between charges. Good thing with robots is they can survive with just a bit of maintenance and some solar charging, but don't need food or even an atmosphere or pressure suit to function.

 

[jerhenderson]

Mars is an entirely different problem space. Lower gravity and less atmosphere means they don’t need near as much thrust.

Also, I don’t think they will be lifting much weight from Mars at first, mostly just getting people and empty ships back to orbit where they would transfer to another ship that goes to earth.

I suspect for a while at least all human trips to Mars will be one way.

 

[jerhenderson]

I don't think they will have fuel production before they have people there, they need water for oxygen production. So they will need to take everything with. I thought the first mission was three robo ships and then a manned one..

you don't need people for fuel production. you can have several ships, all with the equipment to make fuel, oxygen, etc separately. then when people land, they have these reserves already.

 

[JBee]

you don't need people for fuel production. you can have several ships, all with the equipment to make fuel, oxygen, etc separately. then when people land, they have these reserves already.

It would be easier to launch some tankers there with fuel in them. From memory if you refill Starship in orbit, you've got enough fuel for a return flight to Mars anyway. The point of making fuel on Mars later on is to allow more payload in Starships to Mars, where they can then refuel and return to earth for the next load.

Btw do you know where they're planning on setting up shop on Mars where there is water and enough solar to run the sabatier process to make methane and oxygen? Poles have ice but not much sun. There won't be much happening there without on the ground real-time decision making. A comms round trip to robots is a 20min so things will be going at a snail pace if you don't have a local authority. You also need to collect and feed the process with materials which is much harder than the process to make fuel itself.

Why do you say there will only be one way trips to Mars? Will no-one survive?

 

[Crissa]

you don't need people for fuel production. you can have several ships, all with the equipment to make fuel, oxygen, etc separately. then when people land, they have these reserves already.

Exactly.

Hence sending a probe with the test to see if the chemical process worked on Mars, which we've already done.

-Crissa

 

[jerhenderson]

It would be easier to launch some tankers there with fuel in them. From memory if you refill Starship in orbit, you've got enough fuel for a return flight to Mars anyway. The point of making fuel on Mars later on is to allow more payload in Starships to Mars, where they can then refuel and return to each for the next load.

Btw do you know where they're planning on setting up shop on Mars where there is water and enough solar to run the sabatier process to make methane and oxygen? Poles have ice but not much sun. There won't be much happening there without on the ground real-time decision making. A comms round trip to robots is a 20min so things will be going at a snail pace if you don't have a local authority. You also need to collect and feed the process with materials which is much harder than the process to make fuel itself.

Why do you say there will only be one way trips to Mars? Will no-one survive?

financially it's expensive to return, so the trip is one way.