firsttruck
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Is A Toyota SUV "Greener" Than A Tesla?
Mar 10, 2021
Engineering Explained
Engineering Explained guy is using max theoretical numbers CO2 & pollution numbers when PHEV varies widely based on owner/driver charging behavior (like many almost never charge so use gas all the time).
Engineering Explained guy is also not counting increased maintenance PHEVs (plug in hybrids) have by have two systems.
RAV4 Prime has NO DC Fast charging capability so probably use 100% gas for all long distance trips (over 42 miles).
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Even if you have fully charged battery and never want to use ICE it still will come on in many situations.
From Toyota RAV4 Prime manual
Gasoline engine operation in EV mode or AUTO EV/HV mode
Even if there is a sufficient amount of electricity remaining in the hybrid battery (traction battery) and EV driving range is being displayed on the multi-information display, EV driving (driving using only the electric motor) may be canceled and both gasoline engine and electric motor are used depending on the situation (EV driving will be returned to automatically after EV driving becomes possible again).
EV driving may be canceled automatically in the following circumstances*1:
● When vehicle speed is more than approximately 84 mph (135 km/h).
● When power is needed temporarily, for example when the accelerator pedalis depressed firmly or when accelerating suddenly.*2
● When the temperature of the hybrid system is high.
The vehicle has been left in the sun, driven on a hill, driven at high speeds,etc.
● When the temperature of the hybrid system is low.
● When the heater is switched on when the outside temperature is below about 14°F (-10°C).
● When the windshield defogger switch is pressed.
● When the system determines that the gasoline engine needs to be started.
*1: The gasoline engine may also operate in circumstances other than those listed above, depending on conditions.
*2: When driving in AUTO EV/HV mode. Even in EV mode, the gasoline engine may start, depending on the condition of the hybrid battery (traction battery).
Toyota 2021 RAV4 Prime Owners Manual (OM42C07U)
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM42C07U/pdf/OM42C07U.pdf
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The following are the major pollutants from motor vehicles:
Particulate matter (PM). One type of particulate matter is the soot seen in vehicle exhaust. ...
Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
Nitrogen oxides (NOx)
Carbon monoxide (CO)
Sulfur dioxide (SO2)
Greenhouse gases (CO2 )
from Union of Concerned Scientists
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/cars-trucks-buses-and-air-pollution
Which cars are most likely to have catalytic converter stolen?
According to Admiral, hybrid cars are targeted the most because their catalytic converters contain a higher concentration of precious metals (platinum, palladium or rhodium) and are generally less corroded. The most susceptible brands to catalytic converter theft are the Honda, Toyota hybrids. Repair costs $5,000. Your insurance company MIGHT help if you have Comprehensive coverage minus your deductible. If your car came with a catalytic converter you're looking at fines of up to $10,000 for removing it. ... Removing the catalytic converter is illegal.
2020 Nov
Tesla Model Y LR AWD $49,000 (est 2021 USA sales 300,000 )
Toyota RAV 4 Prime $38,000 MSRP + extra dealer markup $5,000? (est USA sales 12,000)
Tesla Model Y 5 seat: storage (frunk & seats down) 68 cft, towing 3,500 lbs
Toyota RAV4 Prime 5: seat storage (seats down) 63 cft, towing 2,500 lbs
Engineering Explained for Tesla used generic CO2 numbers for vehicle construction & usage instead of Tesla #.
This is really unfair since generic number does not take into account ICE system & reality that many owners/drivers of PHEVS use mostly use ICE mode & do not charge vehicles.
maintenance costs (oil change even if not using ICE)
replace oil every 10 months even if ICE rarely used.
Toyota of Santa Barbara
https://www.toyotaofsantabarbara.co...toyota-of-santa-barbara/185,0,93454,63,10370/
$35 engine air filter element that requires changing at 30,000-mile intervals
Much more parts in PHEVs. More items that can break
engine mechanical
transmission mechanical
cooling
exhaust
air pollution (sensors, catalytic converter)
CO2 & energy to product ICE system (engine, transmission, exhaust, air pollution control, catalytic converter)
It is unfair to compare RAV4 Prime used EV mode only to Tesla model Y.
RAV4 Prime used EV mode only should be compared to BEV with smaller battery
Studies show a lot of plugin hybrids are mostly used in ICE mode (never charged). This is especially true for busineess & rental users.
What is total effect for 2021 if
Toyota only sell 12,000 RAV4 Prime plug-in hybird while Tesla sell 300,000 Model Y.
--------------------------
Is A Toyota SUV "Greener" Than A Tesla?
Mar 10, 2021
Engineering Explained
Engineering Explained guy is using max theoretical numbers CO2 & pollution numbers when PHEV varies widely based on owner/driver charging behavior (like many almost never charge so use gas all the time).
Engineering Explained guy is also not counting increased maintenance PHEVs (plug in hybrids) have by have two systems.
RAV4 Prime has NO DC Fast charging capability so probably use 100% gas for all long distance trips (over 42 miles).
--------------------
Even if you have fully charged battery and never want to use ICE it still will come on in many situations.
From Toyota RAV4 Prime manual
Gasoline engine operation in EV mode or AUTO EV/HV mode
Even if there is a sufficient amount of electricity remaining in the hybrid battery (traction battery) and EV driving range is being displayed on the multi-information display, EV driving (driving using only the electric motor) may be canceled and both gasoline engine and electric motor are used depending on the situation (EV driving will be returned to automatically after EV driving becomes possible again).
EV driving may be canceled automatically in the following circumstances*1:
● When vehicle speed is more than approximately 84 mph (135 km/h).
● When power is needed temporarily, for example when the accelerator pedalis depressed firmly or when accelerating suddenly.*2
● When the temperature of the hybrid system is high.
The vehicle has been left in the sun, driven on a hill, driven at high speeds,etc.
● When the temperature of the hybrid system is low.
● When the heater is switched on when the outside temperature is below about 14°F (-10°C).
● When the windshield defogger switch is pressed.
● When the system determines that the gasoline engine needs to be started.
*1: The gasoline engine may also operate in circumstances other than those listed above, depending on conditions.
*2: When driving in AUTO EV/HV mode. Even in EV mode, the gasoline engine may start, depending on the condition of the hybrid battery (traction battery).
Toyota 2021 RAV4 Prime Owners Manual (OM42C07U)
https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM42C07U/pdf/OM42C07U.pdf
--------------------
The following are the major pollutants from motor vehicles:
Particulate matter (PM). One type of particulate matter is the soot seen in vehicle exhaust. ...
Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
Nitrogen oxides (NOx)
Carbon monoxide (CO)
Sulfur dioxide (SO2)
Greenhouse gases (CO2 )
from Union of Concerned Scientists
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/cars-trucks-buses-and-air-pollution
Which cars are most likely to have catalytic converter stolen?
According to Admiral, hybrid cars are targeted the most because their catalytic converters contain a higher concentration of precious metals (platinum, palladium or rhodium) and are generally less corroded. The most susceptible brands to catalytic converter theft are the Honda, Toyota hybrids. Repair costs $5,000. Your insurance company MIGHT help if you have Comprehensive coverage minus your deductible. If your car came with a catalytic converter you're looking at fines of up to $10,000 for removing it. ... Removing the catalytic converter is illegal.
2020 Nov
Tesla Model Y LR AWD $49,000 (est 2021 USA sales 300,000 )
Toyota RAV 4 Prime $38,000 MSRP + extra dealer markup $5,000? (est USA sales 12,000)
Tesla Model Y 5 seat: storage (frunk & seats down) 68 cft, towing 3,500 lbs
Toyota RAV4 Prime 5: seat storage (seats down) 63 cft, towing 2,500 lbs
Engineering Explained for Tesla used generic CO2 numbers for vehicle construction & usage instead of Tesla #.
This is really unfair since generic number does not take into account ICE system & reality that many owners/drivers of PHEVS use mostly use ICE mode & do not charge vehicles.
maintenance costs (oil change even if not using ICE)
replace oil every 10 months even if ICE rarely used.
Toyota of Santa Barbara
https://www.toyotaofsantabarbara.co...toyota-of-santa-barbara/185,0,93454,63,10370/
$35 engine air filter element that requires changing at 30,000-mile intervals
Much more parts in PHEVs. More items that can break
engine mechanical
transmission mechanical
cooling
exhaust
air pollution (sensors, catalytic converter)
CO2 & energy to product ICE system (engine, transmission, exhaust, air pollution control, catalytic converter)
It is unfair to compare RAV4 Prime used EV mode only to Tesla model Y.
RAV4 Prime used EV mode only should be compared to BEV with smaller battery
Studies show a lot of plugin hybrids are mostly used in ICE mode (never charged). This is especially true for busineess & rental users.
What is total effect for 2021 if
Toyota only sell 12,000 RAV4 Prime plug-in hybird while Tesla sell 300,000 Model Y.
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