? Rivian Adopts Tesla NACS Standard!

[cvalue13]

Question. How crowded will stations become?

Whennit comes to worrying about superchargers being crowded:

if you weren’t worried about the millions of Teslas coming online (that exclusively use superchargers), I don’t know why you’d be worried about the tens of thousands of non-Teslas that might come online (and that have fast charging alternative networks)

 

[FutureBoy]

Are you saying External companies that may not even exist yet with the quality of the product we don’t know about should not have the chance to win us over? If they fail to produce a competitive product and service, I am sure plugshare makes sure they don’t get our business but not having the chance to even try? Even if Tesla end up being the best until the end of time, you need others to know it is the best. Why would any consumer want a monopoly? I must be misunderstanding what you are saying.

Not saying that. I'm perfectly fine with other companies trying to make an honest go of it. In fact, it would be perfectly fine if multiple other companies built out networks of chargers. As a user though, my desire would be for all the networks to be mostly usable.

In the gas station model, there is still a distinction between truck stop versus automobile gas station (or diesel vs unleaded). But other than that, pretty much every petroleum based vehicle can use any combination of fuel stations or chains they want. Right now though that is definitely not the case in EV world. Each network has their own app/payment method. There are 2 (or more) competing plug setups. And for any charging across networks there often need to be extra adapters.

The scenario I was responding to involved Tesla open sourcing their chargers. That is OK to an extent but it doesn't change the multiple app/payment methods. Also, it doesn't solve finding other network chargers if each car is only showing one or two networks of chargers to reach for the next charge.

Do some of the non-Tesla chargers get accused of being difficult to use and often broken? Sure. And to an extent having Tesla open source the charger design might help with that somewhat. But open sourcing the design does not require that other companies comply with the design or that they build to the same specifications. So if they get cheap and make adjustments to hardware choices or start making the design "better", there is no guarantee that the chargers built from the open source design would be as reliable or even as usable as Tesla chargers.

I'm just suggesting that beyond open sourcing the design, some there are some other options that might work better. There would still be external companies running charging stations and networks. Hopefully the existing ones or new and better ones do get some foot hold. But personally, I've seen enough issues with all the non-Tesla networks that I will be waiting till there is ample upon ample evidence that the other networks are worthwhile before I bother trying to download their apps, allowing them to get my payment information, or divert my planned route to utilize them.

Some people are more experimental and adventurous. I love being experimental and adventurous but only in things that I choose to to play with. One way I optimize my chosen adventures is that I avoid chaos in areas where I can prioritize reliability and ease of use. Think of it kind of like Steve Jobs and his black turtle-necks. It is said that he wore the same outfit every day so he didn't have to burden his brain with extraneous and unnecessary decisions so that he could focus on the decisions that he thought were much more important. I don't see any need for me to step outside the Tesla charging network till there is ample evidence that some other companies are acceptably reliable and easy to use.

 

[CyberGus]

I don’t know why you’d be worried about the tens of thousands of non-Teslas that might come online

I refuse to charge next to the unwashed heathens and heretics

 

[HaulingAss]

Question. How crowded will stations become?

Even if all EV makers switched to NACS tomorrow, and were allowed on the Supercharger Network, Supercharger usage would probably only increase by around 25%.

And Tesla announced they plan to roughly double the size of the Supercharger Network by the end of the year. So, Superchargers should be getting less crowded, not more.

 

[HaulingAss]

An astoundingly bright future is already priced in to TSLA's stock price.

I expect it to be roughly double where it is now in three years.

 

[HaulingAss]

Now tesla needs to open source the schematics for DC fast chargers because a monopolized charging infrastructure would be absolutely horrific for consumers and entirely opposite of teslas mission statement

Haha! The Supercharger Network already uses designs that are single sourced or "monopolized" (designed, built and tested in-house). And that is a primary reason why the Supercharger Network experience is so horrific and EV adoption has stagnated...errr....wait...

Oh, never mind!

 

[Cyberman]

? Rivian Announces Adoption of Tesla NACS Standard!
-- via Rivianforums

All fall in line, single file please, no pushing. Get in line, on yer knees, bitches! This was the only possible outcome, ever. Tesla is King of the world. New kid on the block is so good he's still doing circles around everyone. Sorry, I'm happy.

 

[Greshnab]

Not saying that. I'm perfectly fine with other companies trying to make an honest go of it. In fact, it would be perfectly fine if multiple other companies built out networks of chargers. As a user though, my desire would be for all the networks to be mostly usable.

In the gas station model, there is still a distinction between truck stop versus automobile gas station (or diesel vs unleaded). But other than that, pretty much every petroleum based vehicle can use any combination of fuel stations or chains they want. Right now though that is definitely not the case in EV world. Each network has their own app/payment method. There are 2 (or more) competing plug setups. And for any charging across networks there often need to be extra adapters.

The scenario I was responding to involved Tesla open sourcing their chargers. That is OK to an extent but it doesn't change the multiple app/payment methods. Also, it doesn't solve finding other network chargers if each car is only showing one or two networks of chargers to reach for the next charge.

Do some of the non-Tesla chargers get accused of being difficult to use and often broken? Sure. And to an extent having Tesla open source the charger design might help with that somewhat. But open sourcing the design does not require that other companies comply with the design or that they build to the same specifications. So if they get cheap and make adjustments to hardware choices or start making the design "better", there is no guarantee that the chargers built from the open source design would be as reliable or even as usable as Tesla chargers.

I'm just suggesting that beyond open sourcing the design, some there are some other options that might work better. There would still be external companies running charging stations and networks. Hopefully the existing ones or new and better ones do get some foot hold. But personally, I've seen enough issues with all the non-Tesla networks that I will be waiting till there is ample upon ample evidence that the other networks are worthwhile before I bother trying to download their apps, allowing them to get my payment information, or divert my planned route to utilize them.

Some people are more experimental and adventurous. I love being experimental and adventurous but only in things that I choose to to play with. One way I optimize my chosen adventures is that I avoid chaos in areas where I can prioritize reliability and ease of use. Think of it kind of like Steve Jobs and his black turtle-necks. It is said that he wore the same outfit every day so he didn't have to burden his brain with extraneous and unnecessary decisions so that he could focus on the decisions that he thought were much more important. I don't see any need for me to step outside the Tesla charging network till there is ample evidence that some other companies are acceptably reliable and easy to use.

you do realize tesla has ALREADY open sourced the design right??

This is straight off teslas site..


With more than a decade of use and 20 billion EV charging miles to its name, the Tesla charging connector is the most proven in North America, offering AC charging and up to 1 MW DC charging in one slim package. It has no moving parts, is half the size, and twice as powerful as Combined Charging System (CCS) connectors.


In pursuit of our mission to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy, today we are opening our EV connector design to the world. We invite charging network operators and vehicle manufacturers to put the Tesla charging connector and charge port, now called the North American Charging Standard (NACS), on their equipment and vehicles. NACS is the most common charging standard in North America: NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla's Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined.


Network operators already have plans in motion to incorporate NACS at their chargers, so Tesla owners can look forward to charging at other networks without adapters. Similarly, we look forward to future electric vehicles incorporating the NACS design and charging at Tesla’s North American Supercharging and Destination Charging networks.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard

 

[Diehard]

we look forward to future electric vehicles incorporating the NACS design and charging at Tesla’s North American Supercharging and Destination Charging networks.

Hay everyone, Does that 12000 chargers everyone is talking about includes destination chargers? Are they 12000 locations or stations?

 

[rudedawg78]

I bet that Apple will not adopt the NACS

 

[HaulingAss]

Hay everyone, Does that 12000 chargers everyone is talking about includes destination chargers? Are they 12000 locations or stations?

Non-Tesla already use Tesla destination chargers with an inexpensive adapter, so no, the number doesn't include destination chargers, which anyone can already use. It's Superchargers only.

The 12,000 Superchargers Tesla is opening up are individual Superchargers (they have over 17,000 in N. America).

A couple of weeks ago they more than doubled the number of my local Superchargers in the town of Burlington, WA. There was one long-standing station with 8 back-in 150kW Superchargers and they quietly added a new location just 2 or 3 miles away with 16 pull-through 250 kWh stations. At some point when I wasn't looking, they added 2 72 kW stations to the first location, bringing the total to 10.

I've never seen either of these stations full (although I have heard of 5 or 10 minute waits during peak times). The new station with 16 stalls is a more convenient location in terms of the highways that cross the interstate no matter which direction coming or going. But the most cars I've seen at it are two. It seems Tesla is building out over-capacity to deal with the relatively small influx of new Supercharging customers from Ford, GM and Rivian (and any others that announce later).

I say, the more the merrier. I always felt sorry for non-Tesla owners on a road trip. Now I just feel sorry that they paid so much for so little.

 

[Kahpernicus]

Now tesla needs to open source the schematics for DC fast chargers because a monopolized charging infrastructure would be absolutely horrific for consumers and entirely opposite of teslas mission statement

There's nothing special or unique about the actual fast chargers. It's electricity.


Tesla chargers are special because Tesla sacked up and built the network out.


In fact:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard

 

[Rockvillerich]

I


Everyone has already been "invited". Tesla open sourced the schematics for anyone and everyone to use without so much as licensing fees. The last company to adopt NACS will be the stupidest company in the industry.

Oh, are you referring to VW or Toyota?

 

[CyberGus]

Hay everyone, Does that 12000 chargers everyone is talking about includes destination chargers? Are they 12000 locations or stations?

There are currently about 17,000 stations across 2300 locations in North America, with over 40,000 stations worldwide.

There's a worldwide tracker at https://supercharge.info/

 

[SolarWizard]

the internals in the cabinets are quite different as is all the equipment behin the curtain.

all those patents should be open sourced if that’s the new standard

There's nothing special or unique about the actual fast chargers. It's electricity.


Tesla chargers are special because Tesla sacked up and built the network out.


In fact:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard