Inconceivable!

[ÆCIII]

ÆCIII, you're getting awful close to relitigating what closed the last thread, where what he said was mentioned and the pattern of antisemitism he was following.

Let's not go there. We agreed to limits of our free speech to discuss trucks here.

-Crissa

Everyone else was already too close to that before I replied, which is partly why I engaged in the first place. But I'm not afraid of a thread being closed, and let's remind ourselves that we wouldn't be discussing Cybertrucks at all if Elon weren't allowed to be Elon.

- ÆCIII

 

[cvalue13]

The U.S. government is not preventing him or anyone else from freely speaking. While complaining about free speech his words are being broadcast to millions.

it’s becoming one of the most incorrectly used terms/virtue-signals

I wish someone would just run ads during the Super Bowl, and every Sunday thereafter, explaining what “free speech” is

I’ll start:

“Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press”

 

[Crissa]

Everyone else was already too close to that before I replied, which is partly why I engaged in the first place. But I'm not afraid of a thread being closed, and let's remind ourselves that we wouldn't be discussing Cybertrucks at all if Elon weren't allowed to be Elon.

- ÆCIII

I'm not worried about Elon being Elon.

I just wish he'd spend half as much effort learning about why his friends are toxic or why his words were hurtful as he spends learning about AI or space flight.

-Crissa

 

[BillyGee]

It's only considered a problem because he doesn't agree 100%, only 95%.

 

[Crissa]

It's only considered a problem because he doesn't agree 100%, only 95%.

Dude, bigotry isn't about agreeing. It's about not doing harm.

-Crissa

 

[Greshnab]

Nobody says Elon does not have a right to say what he wants. The U.S. government is not preventing him or anyone else from freely speaking.
While complaining about free speech his words are being broadcast to millions.

Sometimes Elon is not acting like a responsible adult.
I have a lot of rights too that I do not exercise, not because I do not have the rights, not because I am afraid.

Responsible adults know that great power ( or huge megaphone) comes with responsibilities because you can affect thousands or millions of lives. The bigger megaphone you have the more thought and effort should be spent making sure you are accurate.

When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. — 1 Corinthians 13:11, King James Version.

Here is some thing that really bugged me about free speech and rich people.
For example, Bill O'Reilly broadcasting that nobody knows what causes the ocean tides. (Scientists and teachers have known for hundreds of years).
Bill O'Reilly & the station have the money to find correct answers.
Joe Shmoo on the street does not have the resources and should not be expected to be accurate to the same level.

Elon has billions of $. Why doesn't he have professional research teams to investigate things he is personally interested in.

Elon is so worried about George Soros but Elon has rarely ever directly publically named any of the hundreds of billionaires that fund misinformation about climate change, control companies that actively pollute the air and water, poison the health of billions of people.

Since Elon currently has to have tweets reviewed before they can be sent <a requirement of a federal agency> and he has had to pay money for his tweets... I don't think you are correct in saying the US government isn't preventing him from speaking freely

 

[rudedawg78]

Since Elon currently has to have tweets reviewed before they can be sent <a requirement of a federal agency> and he has had to pay money for his tweets... I don't think you are correct in saying the US government isn't preventing him from speaking freely

Huh? Where are you getting this information?

 

[cvalue13]

Since Elon currently has to have tweets reviewed before they can be sent <a requirement of a federal agency> and he has had to pay money for his tweets... I don't think you are correct in saying the US government isn't preventing him from speaking freely

You’re confusing Elon the CEO of a corporation with Elon the private citizen

You’re also confusing a settlement agreement with a law - parties entering consent decrees may voluntarily waive their First Amendment and other rights.

 

[Diehard]

All speech may have consequences depending on who is listening, because again no expression will resonate positive with everyone.

The fact that they point out obvious consequences to Elon that he already thoroughly knows, is very insulting actually, but they're not doing it to remind him; they're trying to exaggerate the degree or distort a perception of so-called consequences for their own agendas.

But the worst consequence of all, is to be fearful to the point of not speaking at all, because that is internal self-suppression instilled by external oppression, which strongly seems to be the aim of the MSM and corporate factions toward people today.

If you're fearful to engage expression or life because you're worried about what others may think of you or what they might do, then you've already surrendered and are allowing others to control you.

Elon knows consequences more than anybody, as he's endured probably more consequences than most. But, it's each person's right to accept the consequences or be fearful of them.

It's far better to express freely and endure the consequences if one chooses, than being fearful not to express at all.

The MSM aim to please corporations and control people, so people should discard the MSM completely.

- ÆCIII

I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. Terrorism to shut people up or manipulate them to do what we want is not a good thing. And when we put up with it usually is a matter of when it lines up with our personal values. But this looks like a case of questioning our leaders more than terrorizing a helpless voter. Elon does not hold a public office but he is a leader.

 

[firsttruck]

Interesting.
Yesterday, in comments/reply to Joel Greenblatt of Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Elon backtracked a little on his comments about George Soros but then he piles on a little more.

So yesterday Elon said:
"In fairness, I must concede that Joel has a good point and I will endeavor to be more thoughtful in the future.

But then in the same text Elon dug the hole deeper.

I am much older than Elon, was born in U.S. ( Elon only 28 years in U.S.), and I spent the vast majority of my life living in the largest U.S. cities. So I spent more than twice as much time living in large U.S. cities than Elon and I spent all those years as a regular person not as a rich person or millionaire as Elon has been most of the time.

I have been a victim of violent crime a couple times and also unduly harassed by police.

Has Elon ever been victim of violent crime in U.S. city because of George Soros?

George Soros does not even come close to being important compared to other millionaires, billionaires and corporations who affect how U.S. cities are operated and the reported on by mainstream media owned by a few billionaires and corporations.

Today there are a lot of other millionaires/billionaires that have much more detrimental impact on the world than George Soros.
Not even a close call.

Other than Bill Gates betting against Elon/Tesla by shorting the stock, how many millionaires, billionaires has Elon publicly named for their detrimental impact on the world?

Did Elon ever publicly comment about the Sackler family ( and Purdue Pharma and Mundipharma) that promoted drugs and profited off drugs they sold that addicted hundreds of thousands and the crimes those addicts committed? Addiction & crimes that might have actually affected rural "REAL" America more than it did the big cities. Why no 2am at night armed police raid with flash bangs and asset forfeiture of Sackler family assets like done to inner city grandma (house seized) because of action by a grandson?

When did Elon name some of the millionaires, billionaires and corporations that put lead into gasoline and the millionaires, billionaires and corporations who for decades fought against lead's removal despite knowing lead in gas was dangerous from the very beginning.

When did Elon name some of the millionaires, billionaires that support disinfo on climate change and actively trying to slow adoption of renewables?

Lead that harmed physical health and emotional damaged millions that live in cities.

Now Elon implies that Soros advocates dangerous felons should be allowed into U.S. without vetting??

Nobody is suggesting dangerous felons should be allowed in without vetting.


------------------

The Sackler family is an American family who founded and owned the pharmaceutical companies Purdue Pharma and Mundipharma. Purdue Pharma, and some members of the family, have faced lawsuits regarding overprescription of addictive pharmaceutical drugs, including OxyContin. Purdue Pharma has been criticized for its role in the opioid epidemic in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family

------------------

Red Barns and White Barns: Why Rural Crime Skyrocketed in the Late 1800s
2015
By Kevin Drum
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...barns-why-rural-crime-skyrocketed-late-1800s/

------------------

Nearly half the world’s kids are exposed to dangerous levels of lead
And we aren’t doing much to prevent it.
By Dylan [email protected] Jan 14, 2022
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22834666/lead-exposure-poisoning-developing-countries

.....
Stanford researchers Jenna Forsyth and Stephen Luby have found that turmeric spice in Bangladesh is very often cut with lead chromate. That’s right: The turmeric that Bangladeshis use for cooking often has lead added to it. Lead is very heavy, and in lead chromate form, it’s a vibrant yellow, which makes it an easy way to adulterate and amplify the color of turmeric. The problem likely spans beyond just Bangladesh. Consumer Reports has found that even in the US, grocery stores were selling turmeric cut with heavy metals.

.....
The Global Burden of Disease study published in the Lancet in 2019 estimated that about 900,000 people die due to lead annually, representing 21.7 million years of healthy life lost. One attempt to quantify the economic costs of lead in low- and middle-income countries estimated that in 2011, the burden was around $977 billion annually, or 1.2 percent of global GDP.

------------------

Eliminating Childhood Lead Poisoning Worldwide
2022 | Federation of American Scientists | Text by Dr. Lucia Coulter
https://fas.org/publication/eliminating-childhood-lead-poisoning-worldwide/

------------------

Lead linked to adult crime and brain damage
May 27, 2008 Updated 15 years ago
By Maggie Fox, Health, Science Editor
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...-crime-and-brain-damage-idUKN2740549020080528

------------------

Mother Jones - An Updated Lead-Crime Roundup for 2018
2018 feb
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/

.....
Jamaica, man. The country of Jamaica phased out leaded gasoline between 1990 and 2000. Twenty years later, just as you’d expect, the murder rate began a steep decline. (Homicide in Jamaica has stayed generally lower since then, but has spiked up and down in recent years. That’s because although lead is associated with crime, there are lots of other reasons for crime to go up and down too.)

.....
Crime in Japan. Leaded gasoline in Japan was banned completely in 1980. By 2000 the country had an entire cohort of teenagers who had grown up lead free. The lead exposure of Japanese children is now among the lowest in the world, and as a result the Economist reports that crime is so low that police officers are getting bored.

.....
Big cities vs. small cities. Surprisingly, it turns out that once you reduce exposure to gasoline lead, big cities aren’t really all that much more dangerous than small ones after all.

------------------

The lead–crime hypothesis is a research area that involves a study of the correlation between elevated blood lead levels in children and increased rates of crime, delinquency, and recidivism later in life. Lead is widely understood to be highly toxic to multiple organs of the body, particularly the brain. Individuals exposed to lead at young ages are more vulnerable to learning disabilities, decreased I.Q., attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and problems with impulse control, all of which may negatively impact decision-making and lead to the commission of more crimes as these children reach adulthood, especially violent crimes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–crime_hypothesis


------------------

video cued to Elon's comments/reply to Joel Greenblatt of Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and then another attack.

Tesla FSD vs. Waymo, Ford Raises Prices 4x on Blue Cruise, Toyota Continues Toyota-ing
2023May18
Tesla Daily



------------------

 

[HaulingAss]

I agree with HaulingAss. Having principals is such a big weakness

Except I didn't say anything like that. I believe in having strong principles, but having different political preferences from the CEO of a company doesn't affect my purchase decisions. And why should it?

I would be far more likely to avoid VW's since they lied about the emissions of their vehicles. But I don't care about the personal or political views of the CEO of VW, nor do I care about the personal views of the rest of management or the people who assembled the car I buy. If I did, I could never buy anything.

 

[Greshnab]

Huh? Where are you getting this information?

elon can't tweet freely https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-tesla-tweets-court-b2339410.html

Elon fined for tweeting he should take tesla private...
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64384278

so while yes I agree Elon has dual roles we can NOT say in all honesty his speech is NOT limited by the US government.. it clearly is.

 

[HaulingAss]

Interesting.
Yesterday, in comments/reply to Joel Greenblatt of Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Elon backtracked a little on his comments about George Soros but then he piles on a little more.

So yesterday Elon said:
"In fairness, I must concede that Joel has a good point and I will endeavor to be more thoughtful in the future.

But then in the same text Elon dug the hole deeper.

I am much older than Elon, was born in U.S. ( Elon only 28 years in U.S.), and I spent the vast majority of my life living in the largest U.S. cities. So I spent more than twice as much time living in large U.S. cities than Elon and I spent all those years as a regular person not as a rich person or millionaire as Elon has been most of the time.

I have been a victim of violent crime a couple times and also unduly harassed by police.

Has Elon ever been victim of violent crime in U.S. city because of George Soros?

George Soros does not even come close to being important compared to other millionaires, billionaires and corporations who affect how U.S. cities are operated and the reported on by mainstream media owned by a few billionaires and corporations.

Today there are a lot of other millionaires/billionaires that have much more detrimental impact on the world than George Soros.
Not even a close call.

Other than Bill Gates betting against Elon/Tesla by shorting the stock, how many millionaires, billionaires has Elon publicly named for their detrimental impact on the world?

Did Elon ever publicly comment about the Sackler family ( and Purdue Pharma and Mundipharma) that promoted drugs and profited off drugs they sold that addicted hundreds of thousands and the crimes those addicts committed? Addiction & crimes that might have actually affected rural "REAL" America more than it did the big cities. Why no 2am at night armed police raid with flash bangs and asset forfeiture of Sackler family assets like done to inner city grandma (house seized) because of action by a grandson?

When did Elon name some of the millionaires, billionaires and corporations that put lead into gasoline and the millionaires, billionaires and corporations who for decades fought against lead's removal despite knowing lead in gas was dangerous from the very beginning.

When did Elon name some of the millionaires, billionaires that support disinfo on climate change and actively trying to slow adoption of renewables?

Lead that harmed physical health and emotional damaged millions that live in cities.

Now Elon implies that Soros advocates dangerous felons should be allowed into U.S. without vetting??

Nobody is suggesting dangerous felons should be allowed in without vetting.


------------------

The Sackler family is an American family who founded and owned the pharmaceutical companies Purdue Pharma and Mundipharma. Purdue Pharma, and some members of the family, have faced lawsuits regarding overprescription of addictive pharmaceutical drugs, including OxyContin. Purdue Pharma has been criticized for its role in the opioid epidemic in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_family

------------------

Red Barns and White Barns: Why Rural Crime Skyrocketed in the Late 1800s
2015
By Kevin Drum
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-d...barns-why-rural-crime-skyrocketed-late-1800s/

------------------

Nearly half the world’s kids are exposed to dangerous levels of lead
And we aren’t doing much to prevent it.
By Dylan [email protected] Jan 14, 2022
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22834666/lead-exposure-poisoning-developing-countries

.....
Stanford researchers Jenna Forsyth and Stephen Luby have found that turmeric spice in Bangladesh is very often cut with lead chromate. That’s right: The turmeric that Bangladeshis use for cooking often has lead added to it. Lead is very heavy, and in lead chromate form, it’s a vibrant yellow, which makes it an easy way to adulterate and amplify the color of turmeric. The problem likely spans beyond just Bangladesh. Consumer Reports has found that even in the US, grocery stores were selling turmeric cut with heavy metals.

.....
The Global Burden of Disease study published in the Lancet in 2019 estimated that about 900,000 people die due to lead annually, representing 21.7 million years of healthy life lost. One attempt to quantify the economic costs of lead in low- and middle-income countries estimated that in 2011, the burden was around $977 billion annually, or 1.2 percent of global GDP.

------------------

Eliminating Childhood Lead Poisoning Worldwide
2022 | Federation of American Scientists | Text by Dr. Lucia Coulter
https://fas.org/publication/eliminating-childhood-lead-poisoning-worldwide/

------------------

Lead linked to adult crime and brain damage
May 27, 2008 Updated 15 years ago
By Maggie Fox, Health, Science Editor
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...-crime-and-brain-damage-idUKN2740549020080528

------------------

Mother Jones - An Updated Lead-Crime Roundup for 2018
2018 feb
https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/

.....
Jamaica, man. The country of Jamaica phased out leaded gasoline between 1990 and 2000. Twenty years later, just as you’d expect, the murder rate began a steep decline. (Homicide in Jamaica has stayed generally lower since then, but has spiked up and down in recent years. That’s because although lead is associated with crime, there are lots of other reasons for crime to go up and down too.)

.....
Crime in Japan. Leaded gasoline in Japan was banned completely in 1980. By 2000 the country had an entire cohort of teenagers who had grown up lead free. The lead exposure of Japanese children is now among the lowest in the world, and as a result the Economist reports that crime is so low that police officers are getting bored.

.....
Big cities vs. small cities. Surprisingly, it turns out that once you reduce exposure to gasoline lead, big cities aren’t really all that much more dangerous than small ones after all.

------------------

The lead–crime hypothesis is a research area that involves a study of the correlation between elevated blood lead levels in children and increased rates of crime, delinquency, and recidivism later in life. Lead is widely understood to be highly toxic to multiple organs of the body, particularly the brain. Individuals exposed to lead at young ages are more vulnerable to learning disabilities, decreased I.Q., attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and problems with impulse control, all of which may negatively impact decision-making and lead to the commission of more crimes as these children reach adulthood, especially violent crimes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead–crime_hypothesis


------------------

video cued to Elon's comments/reply to Joel Greenblatt of Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and then another attack.

Tesla FSD vs. Waymo, Ford Raises Prices 4x on Blue Cruise, Toyota Continues Toyota-ing
2023May18
Tesla Daily



------------------

No human is perfect but Elon has a good heart and intends the best. Not only that, he has already done more for humanity than 99.9% of the people in the world and that impact will likely grow in the coming decades.

Your anti-Elon diatribe seems awfully focused on the dangers of ingesting lead and wondering why Elon calls out people like George Soros whose policies increase urban crime, but does nothing about lead poisoning, which also increases crime.

While there are too many evils in this world for any one person to call every single issue/bad person out, it is not true that Elon turns a blind eye to lead poisoning. In fact, in 2018 Elon became aware that the water in Flint, Michigan had become contaminated with lead and civic leaders didn't know how to fix the problem with the funding they had. Elon stepped up to the plate and donated enough money to install lead filtration systems in all the schools so school children could drink water not tainted with lead. This amounts to less than 1/20,000th of the amount he has donated to charity. Sure, he's a billionaire, bujt his wealth came from hard work to make life better for people, creating the products and services people wanted that either didn't exist or were too expensive. It baffles me how people can tear down people simply because they are wealthy, unless that wealth was derived from corruption, stealing and cheating.

In the last two years alone, Elon has donated well over $7 billion to charity and has publically pledged half of his wealth to charity before he dies. The harder he works, and the more he makes, the more he will donate. He doesn't work for the money, he works for the benefit of humanity, he wants to make human existance better for all. Anyone who calls Elon Musk selfish doesn't understand the man or what drives him.

Ironically, it's typically people without significant public contributions to their name that are the first to try to diminish Elon's contributions to society or who feel they have a more rightous political position on various issues.

 

[Crissa]

Since Elon currently has to have tweets reviewed before they can be sent <a requirement of a federal agency> and he has had to pay money for his tweets... I don't think you are correct in saying the US government isn't preventing him from speaking freely

so while yes I agree Elon has dual roles we can NOT say in all honesty his speech is NOT limited by the US government.. it clearly is.

Only tweets relating to the financial interests of Tesla. Voluntarily. And that's due to Tesla investors raising a worry... the government stepped in to mediate the disagreement.

So no. Not due to a government agency.

-Crissa

 

[Diehard]

Except I didn't say anything like that. I believe in having strong principles, but having different political preferences from the CEO of a company doesn't affect my purchase decisions. And why should it?

I would be far more likely to avoid VW's since they lied about the emissions of their vehicles. But I don't care about the personal or political views of the CEO of VW, nor do I care about the personal views of the rest of management or the people who assembled the car I buy. If I did, I could never buy anything.

Messing with you