Tesla V4 Supercharger designed station submitted for permitting - in Arizona

[greggertruck]

I think pull through would be much more accessible, regardless of towing. Design these like gas pumps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[greggertruck]

Well, somebody’s gotta tow all those busted Mach-E’s

Is that a thing? They’re sucking that bad?

 

[Crissa]

Is that a thing? They’re sucking that bad?

No.

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

Is that a thing? They’re sucking that bad?

The Mach-E is fine.

Except for the HV battery contactors. Those are not fine.

https://insideevs.com/news/598247/ford-sued-mustang-mache-battery-contactor-overheating/



Here's 66 pages of angst about it on the Mach-E forums:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...recall-first-junction-box-failure-😭😭😭😭.19209/

 

[JBee]

Certainly not if they are at 100% utilization.

Megapack is 3 Megawatts. That’s enough to charge 37 Model Ys.

Megapack has 3000kWh of storage but only around 1500kW of rated power at once from it's inverter. That means: 1500/350kW = 4.3 cars on a v4 SC at full rate at the same time. So it might be able to charge cars whilst isolated from the grid, but it won't be that many cars at the same time on a v4. Now at lower rates it could do more, but either way you'll get between 50-38 MY cars (depending on pack size) charged from it in off-grid mode and it has a 2 hour storage buffer at full load, so it's essentially running at 0.5C.

The two 75kW solar arrays (150kW total) will produce around 700kWh per day average in that location and will take over 4 days to charge the Megapack alone. Obviously they should have a bit more...

But the crazy one is that the site, if configured to run 350kW on all 40 stalls would require a massive 14MW of power from the network connection (minus the 4 stalls the Megapack can do). That's some 8000 households worth of power for this one charging location alone.

Shame not many people use it at night. ROI is probably not that crash hot? Anyone have some figures?

 

[Ogre]

I find it humorous the vast majority of guys that buy trucks to drive to their little office jobs doing mortgage or whatever. Only thing the truck ever tows is their disfunctional marriage and the high payment he has on his Laramie.

This design allows for about 2% of traffic to be trailers.

I think that’s reasonable. At least 50% of traffic is cars and light vehicles, in many places it’s more like 60-80%. Setting aside 2% of the station for trailers seems like a solid first swing at this.

The problem is right now only about 1 in 5 stations has trailer capacity and often that is a pull in space you have to reverse out of. If every station had a trailer stall like this one, I think it would be tolerable. As it is, these stations with trailer support are going to get slammed hard because people won’t want to pull even a small trailer to the back of a huge windy parking area then have to reverse out.

 

[greggertruck]

The Mach-E is fine.

Except for the HV battery contactors. Those are not fine.

https://insideevs.com/news/598247/ford-sued-mustang-mache-battery-contactor-overheating/



Here's 66 pages of angst about it on the Mach-E forums:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/???-post-battery-contactor-recall-first-junction-box-failure-????.19209/

I have a relative that is passively anti tesla, had a Nissan Leaf, drove it into the ground... Ordered a Mach E back in Nov. w ETA May22.... Hasn't even started production yet. No pics, no updates from Ford.... Trash.

He and I joke I may actually get my stupid Cybertruck(as we call it) first.

 

[Ogre]

But the crazy one is that the site, if configured to run 350kW on all 40 stalls would require a massive 14MW of power from the network connection (minus the 4 stalls the Megapack can do). That's some 8000 households worth of power for this one charging location alone.

No. And you should know this one.

The site will likely pull 5 MW or less. The only way it would conceivably pull 14 MW is if 40 cars capable of pulling 350 kW rolled into the station, were all preconditioned and at 10% SoC or less. That’s never going to happen. If the station is packed, it will have cars which are all in various states of charge and most of them will be deep into their charging curves.

Just by nature, most cars which are charging at a Supercharger are going to be over 50% state of charge and their charging speeds will be slowing down. That means half the vehicles will be pulling 75 kW or less. So that megapack will be able to service fully half of the vehicles in the station.

All of the Supercharger stations are designed around average demand and while each stall is capable of operating at peak demand, the station as a whole will not operate every stall at peak demand simultaneously. It would be hugely wasteful to design it that way.

Also… from what I understand even though these are “V4“ chargers, they are going to be limited to 250 kW.

 

[Bill906]

I find it humorous the vast majority of guys that buy trucks to drive to their little office jobs doing mortgage or whatever. Only thing the truck ever tows is their disfunctional marriage and the high payment he has on his Laramie.

Hey, I don't have a disfunctional marriage!

I'm single.

 

[Ogre]

Drawing with the solar awnings not much more detail here.

 

[greggertruck]

Hey, I don't have a disunctional marriage!

I'm single.

She just wanted you to turn off the high beams, Bill... Do it, for all of us plz

 

[Ogre]

With regard to V4 speed, this is from the same source regarding the current state of v4 chargers.

Sounds like initially anyhow V4 chargers will be 250 kW. May get bumped up to higher speed later, but first swag will be 250 kW.

 

[Ogre]

Hey, I don't have a disunctional marriage!

I'm single.

Disunctional spelling on the other hand…

 

[JBee]

No. And you should know this one.

The site will likely pull 5 MW or less. The only way it would conceivably pull 14 MW is if 40 cars capable of pulling 350 kW rolled into the station, were all preconditioned and at 10% SoC or less. That’s never going to happen. If the station is packed, it will have cars which are all in various states of charge and most of them will be deep into their charging curves.

Just by nature, most cars which are charging at a Supercharger are going to be over 50% state of charge and their charging speeds will be slowing down. That means half the vehicles will be pulling 75 kW or less. So that megapack will be able to service fully half of the vehicles in the station.

All of the Supercharger stations are designed around average demand and while each stall is capable of operating at peak demand, the station as a whole will not operate every stall at peak demand simultaneously. It would be hugely wasteful to design it that way.

Also… from what I understand even though these are “V4“ chargers, they are going to be limited to 250 kW.

I defined my argument as 40x 350kW. Sure that is peak, but it's still pretty impressive? I know they won't all be running flat out, and that is why I said ROI on a poorly utilised setup like that won't be high?

But going from the physical sizes of those two transformers sitting there they are at least 3.5MW to 4MW each. Thats 7 - 8MW total plus megapack capacity. I have a 2.5MW transformer sitting in my backyard connected to our power station and ours isn't as big by far.

On ROI: if 40 stalls are full 10 hours of the day and are charging at 75kW average as you say, and Tesla charges $0.10c premium on every kWh of electricity charged you get $3000 a day or a $1m a year. Not really that great given that it's fairly unlikely to run at that rate.

Do you have any figures on Capex? $5-7m seems about right? $1m for Megapack, $1.75m for the SC units alone, network connection, switchgear transformers another $1m, thats nearly $4m and you still have to do all the roads, stalls, solar, siteworks, planning, approvals, labour and property itself etc. Thats best case 20%, but more likely around 10% ROI. That wouldn't be getting me out of bed in the morning. My last project was 370% over 4 years.

The comment about v4 allowing other brands to charge makes me think utilisation rate is in fact a problem.

 

[kev12345]

I think pull through would be much more accessible, regardless of towing. Design these like gas pumps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

nah. takes up too much room. you just need 2 or 3 pull-through's for every dozen regular stalls.